fiddler

Yup. The FBI maintains NICS. It's a national registry for guns and explosives/materials. Guns are required by law to be registered. I can sit in my cruiser and look up for instance your name/SS# and pull all of the fire arms registered to your name, and your permits. I can also pull up a fire arm's serial number and back trace it that way if a paper trail has been left. All guns have a serial number from the factory, which the factory registers who they sold it to (ex. Dick's Sporting Goods) who then registers who they sold it to (the customer).

Registering firearms doesn't prevent criminals from getting guns.

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Every being is intelligent. But if you measure a fish's intelligence on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live forever thinking it's stupid.

John Wilkes Booth

i don't think it's pointless... really i've heard people bitch about the NRA and **** time and time again... it's not like i dismiss whatever grievances you have with them, but i just can't maintain interest in people complaining about political opposition again and again and again. to me there's really not much potential to say anything there that hasn't been said a thousand times before.

but a lot of those NRA people challenge the actual potential efficacy of any gun control program.. which is what i'm more interested in. so saying 'it doesn't have political support' is actually what's pointless to me. cause i feel that it's up in the air as to whether there is actually an effective strategy to control guns... which is what we really should figure out before we get into arguing about whether or not we should implement said strategy.

John Wilkes Booth

so how does the gun get from the legal owner to the criminal, specifically?

fiddler

Most common is theft. For instance criminal breaks into a home and steals a gun. You should always report a stolen gun, but it's probably not going to show up until it's used in a crime or a cop happens to find it on a traffic stop/drug raid/warrant/etc. Less common is family member dies and leaves the firearm to a nephew, nephew then robs a store with said gun. Criminal could fake ID/paperwork and "legally"* buy it or have someone do so for him/her*+.


*Both of these are in fact illegal because the firearm was not obtained in a fair and honest manner
+Buying a firearm for someone else is illegal

__________________
Every being is intelligent. But if you measure a fish's intelligence on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live forever thinking it's stupid.

John Wilkes Booth

see... this is the kind of **** that i'd come across that gave me the impression there is no national database..

Fact Check: The Gun Registry Red Herring | TIME.com

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...l-Gun-Registry

http://fee.org/freeman/detail/nation...oad-to-tyranny

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3101204.html

http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Arti...l-be-used.html

if such a registry already exists... why do both sides of the debate seem to be unaware of it?

John Wilkes Booth

what about this?

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

fiddler

Straw purchase sale which is what I said. That's when you have someone else purchase the weapon for you.

__________________
Every being is intelligent. But if you measure a fish's intelligence on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live forever thinking it's stupid.

John Wilkes Booth

yea but they say that is the most common way

so i feel like there should be a way to make people accountable for the maintaining proof of possession of the weapons they purchase

rather than the current system where after the purchase is made, it can be sold to the criminal with the serial scratched off and discarded later, with no accountability for the person who initially purchased the gun

not to say purchasing a gun and 'losing' it or having it 'stolen' should immediately get you charged with a crime... but i would think if this becomes a repeated thing then some red flags would be raised.

fiddler

Yup it does in which the ATF investigates the "misplaced" firearms. And to be honest, I don't give a **** what the ATF says. Because every criminal I've found with a gun when I ask them where'd you get it I'm told that they stole it. I speak from experience, not statistics.

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Every being is intelligent. But if you measure a fish's intelligence on it's ability to climb a tree, it will live forever thinking it's stupid.

DeadChannel

Bad logic.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal


I don't have a lot of stock in the debate, though, so I'm out.