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Old 11-10-2015, 02:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
just googled and found this


Why Syrian Refugees in Turkey Are Leaving for Europe | The Nation

case in point. it's hard enough for these refugees to assimilate into turkey, their muslim next door neighbors due to ethnic tensions. that only makes the prospect of europe or america taking on the burden even more dismal.
You really don't get it do you, just how democratic by the standards of the western world do you think Turkey is? I've been to Turkey and it's an interesting country but democratic it certainly isn't and it's no wonder nobody wants them in the EU.

You're again making the mistake of thinking that immigrants should only be moving to countries where they are culturally similar and the article that you've used actually defeats your own viewpoint.

The problem with this vein of thought, is that the whole process of immigration becomes limited if people are restricted on where they go due to cultural likeness. I guess you're the type of guy that likes putting things into boxes.

Finally and most importantly, where should these Latin American, African and Middle Eastern immigrants and refugees be going to, based on your logic of easier cultural assimilation?
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If you can't deal with the fact that there are 6+ billion people in the world and none of them think exactly the same that's not my problem. Just deal with it yourself or make actual conversation. This isn't a court and I'm not some poet or prophet that needs everything I say to be analytically critiqued.
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Old 11-10-2015, 03:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You really don't get it do you, just how democratic by the standards of the western world do you think Turkey is? I've been to Turkey and it's an interesting country but democratic it certainly isn't and it's no wonder nobody wants them in the EU.

You're again making the mistake of thinking that immigrants should only be moving to countries where they are culturally similar and the article that you've used actually defeats your own viewpoint.

The problem with this vein of thought, is that the whole process of immigration becomes limited if people are restricted on where they go due to cultural likeness. I guess you're the type of guy that likes putting things into boxes.

Finally and most importantly, where should these Latin American, African and Middle Eastern immigrants and refugees be going to, based on your logic of easier cultural assimilation?
i'm not saying you can never have immigrants from alien cultures. i'm saying mass immigration from an alien culture is going to be problematic. if you have a small number of muslim immigrants from the middle east, as we do here in america, there isn't really much of a problem. notice that america has a lot less of an issue with islamic extremism than europe does. this is because we aren't importing entire communities at a time. yet we do have this issue with latin american/mexican immigrants in certain border states for the reasons i listed earlier. it comes down to scale. if you import too many people from a certain culture, you are creating a barrier to assimilation. or rather you are lessening the incentive for them to assimilate.

the article doesn't go against my viewpoint at all. my viewpoint is that cultural cohesion matters in a society. it is you, the proponents of open ended multiculturalism, who are debunked by the situation in turkey. it has nothing to do with democracy: the turkish govt isn't the one being hostile to the refugees. it is the natives who are expressing nationalist sentiments. it is a cultural/ethnic dilemma. just as i stated before.
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Old 11-10-2015, 03:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i'm not saying you can never have immigrants from alien cultures. i'm saying mass immigration from an alien culture is going to be problematic. if you have a small number of muslim immigrants from the middle east, as we do here in america, there isn't really much of a problem. notice that america has a lot less of an issue with islamic extremism than europe does. this is because we aren't importing entire communities at a time. yet we do have this issue with latin american/mexican immigrants in certain border states for the reasons i listed earlier. it comes down to scale. if you import too many people from a certain culture, you are creating a barrier to assimilation. or rather you are lessening the incentive for them to assimilate.
That's the whole point though, the mass immigration that you're referring to is an overblown issue that is nowhere near as bad as the European press would have you believe. Sure there are probably more muslims here now than before, but there are also more Africans and Eastern Europeans as well.

I also disagree with your final point about barriers of assimilation, a more alien culture just takes more time and I think you put too much of an emphasis on the importance of religion in terms of immigrants having problems adapting here, all immigrants if they're religious have their own places of worship and a certain amount of freedom.

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the article doesn't go against my viewpoint at all. my viewpoint is that cultural cohesion matters in a society. it is you, the proponents of open ended multiculturalism, who are debunked by the situation in turkey. it has nothing to do with democracy: the turkish govt isn't the one being hostile to the refugees. it is the natives who are expressing nationalist sentiments. it is a cultural/ethnic dilemma. just as i stated before.
If you were student of history, you'd probably be aware that Turkey has pretty much been at war with all its neighbours, most of its neighbours hate Turkey and in turn Turkey probably isn't too keen on them either.

Charitable causes is not something that countries in that part of the world undertake that often, so its no surprise that Syrian refugees are exactly going to be welcome there.
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Originally Posted by eraser.time206 View Post
If you can't deal with the fact that there are 6+ billion people in the world and none of them think exactly the same that's not my problem. Just deal with it yourself or make actual conversation. This isn't a court and I'm not some poet or prophet that needs everything I say to be analytically critiqued.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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That's the whole point though, the mass immigration that you're referring to is an overblown issue that is nowhere near as bad as the European press would have you believe. Sure there are probably more muslims here now than before, but there are also more Africans and Eastern Europeans as well.

I also disagree with your final point about barriers of assimilation, a more alien culture just takes more time and I think you put too much of an emphasis on the importance of religion in terms of immigrants having problems adapting here, all immigrants if they're religious have their own places of worship and a certain amount of freedom.





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If you were student of history, you'd probably be aware that Turkey has pretty much been at war with all its neighbours, most of its neighbours hate Turkey and in turn Turkey probably isn't too keen on them either.
if you were a student of history you'd probably be aware that you could say the same thing about european nationalities
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