The Refugee crisis

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 11-11-2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I just was looking for a source. You gave me one that doesn't really jibe with your claim.

i don't have the source i was thinking of. so i gave you one which made very similar claims. it doesn't account for every single type of crime, i will concede that point.

**Janszoon** · 11-11-2015, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

i don't have the source i was thinking of. so i gave you one which made very similar claims. it doesn't account for every single type of crime, i will concede that point.

I wasn't looking for it to account for every single type of crime, I was just looking for it to support your claim, which it didn't.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 11-11-2015, 12:57 PM

well i guess i'll just amend my claim to rape, burglary and robbery instead of "violent crime". since as you said.. there are problems with comparing "violent crime" in general... so it is actually better to compare specific crimes.

Quote:

However, before we put too much credibility on these calculations, we should note that criminologists say there is actually no good way to compare violent crime rates in these two countries.

Our rough effort to equalize the definitions improved the quality of the comparison, but what we did is not enough to fix the comparison entirely, said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University. "Once you get away from clearly defined terms like homicides, all kinds of problems come in," Fox said. "You have to take comparisons not just with a grain of salt but with the entire shaker."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...her-violent-c/

so you're right to correct me using the term "violent crime." beyond that though my point is the same.

William_the_Bloody · 11-11-2015, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I've never had the feeling that you were in any way xenophobic and islamophobic and it's scary how it's impossible to have a discussion about multiculturalism and related topics, without having those accusations hurled at you.

It's called political correctness and it's rooted in totalitarian theology, it basically resulted in my departure from supporting the left.

I questioned immigration on this forum solely from an economic perspective, and although I never had any accusations thrown at me, I was left with the distinct impression of uh oh....something's wrong with William, better step away from him.

I've even re thought my whole analysis on economics and immigration, and in terms of GDP growth it might be a good idea to erase the Canadian & Mexican borders ,and have a North American Union like the EU in the long run....(so I'm currently in favour of this, though my mind may change tomorrow.)

Nevertheless, every time I posted something in favour of Trump, I can't help but think people are thinking "He must be for the wall" when that is the furthest thing on my mind on why I was supporting him.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 11-11-2015, 01:53 PM

so i'm trying to find the actual stats for london and ny... the most recent annual data i could find for ny was 2013, but the london stats are for the last 12 months

............| murder.|rape..|.robbery|.burglary
london....|107......|5331..|..21,968|..71,541
ny..........|335......|1112..|..19,170|..16,606

Metropolitan Police Service - Crime Figures
Crime in New York, New York (NY): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

i can't do "assault" because london doesn't list that. the closest thing they have is "violence against the person", which janz noted is vague. that figure is at 212,240 annually, while ny lists 31,767 annual "assaults." obviously these terms probably have different meanings so they can't really be compared... for whatever reason they don't have any stats on what we would consider "assaults" in london so there's nothing i can do about that.

Unknown Soldier · 11-16-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I'm a first generation eastern-european immigrant living in Germany.
I've grown up with fellow eastern-europeans, as well as arabs, turks and africans, all in a very diverse neighbourhood in our very diverse city.
So I'd say I know a thing or two about european multiculturalism first-hand.
I pretty much agree with what JWB says, a huge part of the problems faced from immigration are problems fuelled by cultural differences and it seems weird how people always try to downplay that, just because it makes us uncomfortable.
Sure, JWB is being edgy again here and there, but most of what he said in this thread is spot on.

It's not that it's being downplayed, but you can't have selective immigration where immigrants from different cultures will get along nicely, otherwise you'd end up with a very linear racial program which prejudices against certain groups. The whole process unfortunately for immigrants is a tough one and the melting pot in which they're thrown is just part of the process and can't be changed, as immigration out of necessity is never going to be easy.

Trollheart · 11-22-2015, 06:21 AM

Now of course we have some serious problems in the wake of the Paris attacks, as people think, well, if these guys had not been let in to France/Europe in the first place, they wouldn't have been in a position to carry out those atrocities.

It's a hard one to argue against, even given my stance on immigration. I know the chances are it's a tiny percentage, that most of the immigrants are genuine, but even so, it only takes two or three people to get together, plan, and cause absolute carnage...

**Janszoon** · 11-22-2015, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Now of course we have some serious problems in the wake of the Paris attacks, as people think, well, if these guys had not been let in to France/Europe in the first place, they wouldn't have been in a position to carry out those atrocities.

It's a hard one to argue against, even given my stance on immigration. I know the chances are it's a tiny percentage, that most of the immigrants are genuine, but even so, it only takes two or three people to get together, plan, and cause absolute carnage...

Except all or almost all of the people who committed the Paris attacks weren't immigrants.

Trollheart · 11-23-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Except all or almost all of the people who committed the Paris attacks weren't immigrants.

Well they were. They weren't born in France, they emigrated there. So they're immigrants. Aren't they? I mean, names like they're putting out on the news, they're not French names surely...

**Frownland** · 11-23-2015, 12:31 PM

*facepalm*

My first name is French but that doesn't mean that I emigrated from France. You can be born in a place without your parents changing your last name to be more fitting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...paris-attacks/

11-11-2015, 01:53 PM	#105 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	so i'm trying to find the actual stats for london and ny... the most recent annual data i could find for ny was 2013, but the london stats are for the last 12 months ............\| murder.\|rape..\|.robbery\|.burglary london....\|107......\|5331..\|..21,968\|..71,541 ny..........\|335......\|1112..\|..19,170\|..16,606 Metropolitan Police Service - Crime Figures Crime in New York, New York (NY): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map i can't do "assault" because london doesn't list that. the closest thing they have is "violence against the person", which janz noted is vague. that figure is at 212,240 annually, while ny lists 31,767 annual "assaults." obviously these terms probably have different meanings so they can't really be compared... for whatever reason they don't have any stats on what we would consider "assaults" in london so there's nothing i can do about that. Last edited by John Wilkes Booth; 11-11-2015 at 02:03 PM.

11-22-2015, 06:21 AM	#107 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Now of course we have some serious problems in the wake of the Paris attacks, as people think, well, if these guys had not been let in to France/Europe in the first place, they wouldn't have been in a position to carry out those atrocities. It's a hard one to argue against, even given my stance on immigration. I know the chances are it's a tiny percentage, that most of the immigrants are genuine, but even so, it only takes two or three people to get together, plan, and cause absolute carnage... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

11-23-2015, 12:31 PM	#110 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	facepalm My first name is French but that doesn't mean that I emigrated from France. You can be born in a place without your parents changing your last name to be more fitting. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...paris-attacks/ __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x