re: homeostasis

DwnWthVwls · 05-09-2015, 08:35 AM

Thanks Tore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

But this discussion is starting to get stale, especially since this is pretty much the same debate I just had with JWB. So here are some new questions:

So I address my comment to Tore, you chime in, and then tell me your bored and rattle off a bunch of bullshit you think we should discuss instead.. Yeh, I think I'll pass.

Oriphiel · 05-09-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

So I address my comment to Tore, you chime in, and then tell me your bored and rattle off a bunch of bullshit you think we should discuss instead.. Yeh, I think I'll pass.

If you don't want to talk to me, or don't like the direction i'm taking the discussion in, just say so. There's no need to be insulting about it. Especially since Tore and I agree, and are basically reiterating each other, yet he gets a "Thanks" and I get what basically amounts to a "Fuck off".

Your question (which was addressed to me):

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I don't like your analysis. Pick a side. Either our brains have evolved enough that we have the ability to override the "biological imperative" or the things we do are still driven by the biological imperative subconsciously.

My answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Think about it like this; there's a car nut who owns a vintage hot-rod, and every year they upgrade it in some way. After a few years, half of the parts are fresh and new, while the other half are still old and well-worn, and there are even a few parts that the car still has but no longer needs. Humans are the same way; we have developed and evolved to a point where many of our old instincts are no longer needed in the modern environment, yet they remain. There are also a bunch of new parts that look fancy, but we have no clue what they do, and we can't make use of them yet (like a turbo charger that has been partially installed, but not completely hooked up). We're a jumble. You're asking me to decide whether the hot-rod is either an old car (always subconsciously moving towards the imperative) or a new car (free from being driven towards the imperative), when the truth is that it's both. Other animals are similar to humans in that almost every species never stops evolving and each has weird transitional hiccups and traits, but our very high levels of intelligence and our ability to actively change our behavioral patterns complicate the matter in a way that other species have yet to have to deal with.

Edit: You know what? Fuck it. I'm just going to add you to my ignore list. No offense, I don't think you're a bad person or anything, it's just that I've never gotten anything out of reading your posts. Your jokes don't make me laugh, your "logic" consists of reiterating shit that has already been said and settled pages ago, and you always criticize people for examining your posts while getting mad when they criticize yours. You're a lot like me in that sense, and I just don't think I can stand having to deal with another me in the world, as just one is more than enough to be annoying as hell. This thread doesn't have as much to do with it as the other ones we've talked in, like the one about quitting smoking, but we just can't ever seem to talk without pissing each other off.

Edit Edit: Alright, tis done. Fuck, I thought it would be the right thing to do, but I already miss seeing that goofy avatar that I so shamelessly ripped off of. I'm probably going to reverse this before the day's over.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 05-09-2015, 07:07 PM

the ignore list is a bitch move imo

i don't want any drama ori just saying, i judge people who use the ignore list. makes them look mentally weak to me. especially when you announce it like that.

as for the discussion i think tore explained it well, in terms of adding some nuance to the way the incentive structure works. but i still say even with all that, you basically do exist to reproduce. the mechanisms driving you to do it might be indirect and convoluted, etc. but you wouldn't be here if there wasn't that reproductive drive.

that doesn't mean i'm saying everyone has to have kids... but just that the whole ridiculing 'breeders' thing is silly. 'breeders' are just human beings doing what they're designed to do.

i was also thinking about it and the whole 'overriding the biological imperative' thing seems a bit dressed up to me. when you think about how evolution actually works. it basically works cause the successful traits/models continue to get reproduced. so you can put on a condom and decide not to have kids. you didn't beat evolution by doing that, you just selected yourself out of the game. basically became an evolutionary dead end. it seems like this kind of trend could never really take off in the species without collapsing its population and probably wiping us out.

so even though we have sort of taken ourselves off the menu with regard to the food chain and we mess with our environment in a number of ways that takes away a lot of the typical selective pressure that organisms face... there are still certain behavioral trends that must continue for the species to continue.

Oriphiel · 05-09-2015, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

the ignore list is a bitch move imo

i don't want any drama ori just saying, i judge people who use the ignore list. makes them look mentally weak to me. especially when you announce it like that.

You're right. It takes more courage for people to constantly belittle each other and have pissing contests than it does for them to learn to just walk away and get on with their lives. What was I thinking?

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

so you can put on a condom and decide not to have kids. you didn't beat evolution by doing that, you just selected yourself out of the game. basically became an evolutionary dead end. it seems like this kind of trend could never really take off in the species without collapsing its population and probably wiping us out..

People have been using contraceptives forever. The denizens of the Roman empire actually drove a certain plant to extinction, because it prevented pregnancies, and they over-picked them. By your logic, none of us today should use contraceptives, because our parents didn't when they created us. And yet we do anyway. It's a massive trend, and it has always been, yet it hasn't "collapsed our population". If anything, there are more people now than ever, and yet more people using easily-available contraceptives then ever as well.

Chula Vista · 05-09-2015, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

You're right. It takes more courage for people to constantly belittle each other and have pissing contests than it does for them to learn to just walk away and get on with their lives.

Tell me about it brother. Now get in Plug.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 05-09-2015, 08:20 PM

nah, you're right. it's really courageous to rely on software to filter out the people we don't like to deal with. someone should give you a medal of honor or something.

Chula Vista · 05-09-2015, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

nah, you're right. it's really courageous to rely on software to filter out the people we don't like to deal with. someone should give you a medal of honor or something.

One step closer...

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 05-09-2015, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

People have been using contraceptives forever. The denizens of the Roman empire actually drove a certain plant to extinction, because it prevented pregnancies, and they over-picked them. By your logic, none of us today should use contraceptives, because our parents didn't when they created us. And yet we do anyway. It's a massive trend, and it has always been, yet it hasn't "collapsed our population". If anything, there are more people now than ever, and yet more people using easily-available contraceptives then ever as well.

maybe poor wording or something on my part. i wasn't trying to convey the idea that something like contraception can't stick around. but that a drive to be kid-less and not reproduce (if implemented sucessfully) would effectively end our genetic lineage. the fact that we're still around 2000 years later proves that if one thing has continued all the while since debauched romans decided to slip a goat's entrails on their member, it's reproduction.

Oriphiel · 05-09-2015, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

nah, you're right. it's really courageous to rely on software to filter out the people we don't like to deal with. someone should give you a medal of honor or something.

I feel pretty good about it. Now nobody has to deal with our pointless shit. And when I get tired of the peaceful calm, I can always kick the shit out of you in one of those topical threads, just like the good 'ole times.

When you make the medal, get my rank right; i'm a colonal, damn it. I'm off to plug.

DwnWthVwls · 05-09-2015, 08:38 PM

The only people who annoy me when discussing things are you and soulflower. I've never gotten angry about a MB conversation, I've admitted being wrong on multiple occasions, and even changed my opinion about things due to other peoples' logic. You just add emotion to my words that isn't there behind the screen.

I also don't care if you ignore me, and I won't judge you for doing so, can't get along with everyone. I found your post awfully snide and replied accordingly. I've shown you respect in the past by taking the argument to PMs when asked and didn't make a bunch of drama in the thread. If you feel like you need to ignore me that's on you, I'm not going to apologize for anything because I don't think I was in the wrong.

05-09-2015, 07:07 PM	#33 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	the ignore list is a bitch move imo i don't want any drama ori just saying, i judge people who use the ignore list. makes them look mentally weak to me. especially when you announce it like that. as for the discussion i think tore explained it well, in terms of adding some nuance to the way the incentive structure works. but i still say even with all that, you basically do exist to reproduce. the mechanisms driving you to do it might be indirect and convoluted, etc. but you wouldn't be here if there wasn't that reproductive drive. that doesn't mean i'm saying everyone has to have kids... but just that the whole ridiculing 'breeders' thing is silly. 'breeders' are just human beings doing what they're designed to do. i was also thinking about it and the whole 'overriding the biological imperative' thing seems a bit dressed up to me. when you think about how evolution actually works. it basically works cause the successful traits/models continue to get reproduced. so you can put on a condom and decide not to have kids. you didn't beat evolution by doing that, you just selected yourself out of the game. basically became an evolutionary dead end. it seems like this kind of trend could never really take off in the species without collapsing its population and probably wiping us out. so even though we have sort of taken ourselves off the menu with regard to the food chain and we mess with our environment in a number of ways that takes away a lot of the typical selective pressure that organisms face... there are still certain behavioral trends that must continue for the species to continue.

05-09-2015, 08:20 PM	#36 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	nah, you're right. it's really courageous to rely on software to filter out the people we don't like to deal with. someone should give you a medal of honor or something.