Reducing black on black violence and gang activity in ghettos will reduce police brutality. They aren't two separate issues.

Every time some shitty riot like this happens everyone involved is just moving the bar backwards.

They are two seperate issues but they are both rooted in racism and classicism.

Discrimination against the classics is the worst.

I know. The Classics are a great band.

Both.

You are correct. on both counts imo.Everytime riots happen I shake my head and say,well obviously the million man march ment nothing.

Edit: The problem is that the black community no longer has strong leaders like we did in the 60s.We have **** stirers like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, and or morons with mouths full of gold.

soulflower, i notice you only ever seem to talk about police brutality in the united states against black people. can i ask why it is you're not equally concerned with police brutality in china?

In China, When Police Brutality Is So Common An Off-Duty Officer Gets A Taste

Cause the only beat dogs to death in front of you there.

Because she lives here dude,really?!

my point is basically she cares about issues that affect black people in the united states because she's a black person in the united states. that's something the majority of this forum doesn't share in common with her. so maybe that would explain why most of us aren't as obsessed with the same issues as her.

or to put it another way... CHINESE LIVES MATTER

Shes just passionate about it bro,thats all.And If she lived in China and found it to be unjust there she'd rant and rave via symbols. She just happens to be an AMERICAN BLACK WOMAN.

Being passionate doesn't justify her pretending her opinion is the only valid one and that anyone that doesn't quite agree deserves to be labeled an ignorant racist.

i'm just trying to answer the thread's question. she's passionate about black issues, she's black. we're not black, we're not passionate about black issues. seems perfectly logical to me.

Her arguments often come off sounding like police brutality is worse when it targets black people than other races. I don't think she actually feels that way but the way she presents her arguments make it sound like that. I understand it's a problem rooted in racism(for black people) but the issue in it's entirety goes beyond targeting black people.

I think the main reason people get annoyed about social issues, at least when discussed on the internet, is because more often than not advocates on both sides turn to generalizations and demagoguery to get their point across. Instead of a discussion they inevitably become mad libs in the form of "all ______ are _______" where you just fill in the blanks with whatever you want. "All Republicans are out of touch, bible bashing anti-intellectuals" "All Democrats are heartbleeding, latte sipping, European envying anti-Americans" or indeed "All cops are authority abusing racists". All you do with that is completely shutdown any kind of discussion and leave a line in the sand that keeps two sides from ever seeing anything eye-to-eye.

I feel like I should mention that I am using the general version of the word "you", not naming anybody specifically.

no, her argument is that police brutality happens more often to black people than white.

No what? I didn't comment about what her argument is. Not sure what you're trying to contradict.

well no I didn't get what you got from her posts here I guess. she didn't post about white people getting beaten or killed by police because that's not the issue shes talking about, not because they aren't equally as terrible.

Thanks I thought so too, which is why I felt the need to ask.

This part kind of sounds like people bringing up the issue of solution is a bad thing.

Then you're saying here that we need that discussion that you just called a bad thing.

And here you say we have to talk about it. So which is it? Or are you just rambling at this point?

All Petes are loathsome.

Excellent point!!!

I will come back and discuss the black on black crime and police brutality but I want to respond to this one

You are right, this is the problem.

I think the mentality of this generation "black youth" is very different from the past. We still experience similiar racial issues as our past ancestors did but I don't think this generation fights as hard as in the past. Also, I don't think we really have any current black leaders and I personally think that makes a difference. No I am not talking about no Al Sharpton or Jesse J.

We need someone with an influential platform that wants to invest in making changes and risk their life to do it like MLK did but ya know we don't have that. The current influential blacks just care about money and image thats the only difference I see now compared to the past.

In the past, everybody was on the same page ( black celebrities, politicians, regular folk, activists etc) which is what made us strong. Muhammid Ali, Stevie Wonder, James Brown, etc were all down there marching with Martin Luther King Jr in the streets but the current black pop stars of today wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire, its sad how far things have changed.


That's why I always ask why cant social issues be discussed in music anymore because thats all especially African American singers did all through the 60's during the civil rights movement. The whole purpose of it was to bring awareness to a problem that got people thinking (whether people want to admit it or not that does help in making a difference).


Black people, when we are united are strong. No one can't stop us but there is currently a lot of division within our community.

The black youth today need some direction in how they channel their energy when someone does wrong by them. We rioted in the 60's too but we also had someone like MLK who said "No that is not cool, lets do it a different way" we don't have that now.

Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly doe

Also, I don't get the people complaining about this thread.

No one is making you reply in it. This thread is starting to turn around with very insightful commentary. Please don't comment if you do not care about the topic. Its as simple as that. Don't ruin it for everyone else who wants to talk about the topic.

I'm not the only one that finds this thread pointless.

^

That's because there isn't a profound issue like slavery or segregation to confront. Police brutality and racial profiling suck, but they don't affect the lives of black people to such a fundamental extent as slavery and segregation did. Just like how there isn't a huge feminist movement anymore now that women can vote and aren't compelled by society into the role of mother and homemaker.

breaking: white guy thinks racism threads are pointless

more at 11

well, i'm not sure about that. i mean you could likewise say that segregation wasn't that big of a deal compared to slavery, but instead you chose to lump them together. there have been varying degrees of oppression or racial tension etc over the course of american history. things have gotten better, i would say, but that's not to say the black community doesn't still have issues to deal with.

but a key difference between say slavery or segregation and racial profiling is that you could fix slavery and segregation using state force and legislation. you could simply make it illegal to practice these forms of oppression. with police brutality/racism it's a bit more complex than that. police brutality is already illegal. really the only way to address these more modern racial issues is to change the way people think/act in a way that i don't think can be easily legislated. at least i don't have any ideas on how you'd improve the situation through legislation. really the only way to stamp out something like racism is through social engineering. which the state already attempts to do to some degree. but basically we live in a country with a long history of racial strife and tension and so it's not that surprising that 50 or so years after we decided to promote black people from second class citizen status we're still dealing with residual racial strife and tension. this problem won't go away for at least a few generations, i would guess.

I think those leaders do exist now, it's just that they're not necessarily outside the establishment the way they were in the 60s. I'm thinking of someone like Baltimore's mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, a relevant example in light of current events. Things are less clear cut than they were back in the 60s when black people were always in the position of being outsiders in politics and black leaders had to be more grassroots in nature. There's obviously still plenty of racism, but it's less institutional and less blatant and the black leaders most likely to fight it effectively are part of the system rather than outside of it.

And I can dig that, fighting the power from within is the only effective way to dismantle the machine. (Imo) But the issue is black folks appear to need a voice, like they had with Dr. King. A voice the encourages them in more positive ways.

Part of my point is that there are now a greater diversity of voices, and they're encouraging in very tangible ways. For instance, by being an example of how being focused and working hard can put you in a position to truly enact change as the mayor of a major American city.

God this thread is ****ing cringeworthy and it's not because of OP.

Edit: Just realized I only read about half of it.

I get you,really I get what you are saying.Unfourtunately the youth in black culture are more apt to listen to Kayne West,vs Condelisa Rice.And that is an issuse that I dunno how or where to start to fix.

I disagree


We do not have any black leaders the same as in the past.


Just because an African American is in a high position does not automatically make them a black leader. (yes they might have the platform to bring about change but that doesn't necessarily mean they are risking their life to protest the civil rights for black people)

We don't have that today.

We don't have Malcom X's or MLK's who risk there life to push for civil rights and equality for black people. They weren't looking for trophies or to be on t.v. They worked in the communities, organized protests, taught the youth about their history, implemented spirituality/church in their practices.

We don't have that today.

The black youth today look towards the wrong people for guidance which is the problem. They look towards people like Beyonce and Jay Z when Beyonce and Jay Z could give a damn if they got shot in the street today or tomorrow.


Actually you are wrong, racism is actually more implicit and institutionalized now. Its not as overt and explicit like it was in the past.

But that does not make that mayor a leader in the face of civil rights for black people.

Being an example is not enough.

We need someone as the face of the movement who not only discusses the problems and issues that the black community faces but also actively bring about change through peaceful organized protests, programs, lecturing the black youth about their history, problems they might have, educating certain communities etc. We need some structured guidance and organization for when these types of civil rights issues arises.

Part of the reason why the youth riots and loots is because they don't know how to respond to racism because they don't know their history. If they knew their history about what MLK did and stood for they would not be doing that.

Well said.

That is the main issue. They need someone that will teach them how to respond when these racial issues come up.

"No rioting is not the right way, lets try this...."

Also,

They just need someone that they can vent to and talk about their frustrations with. Young black men are constantly profiled all the time and they have a lot of anger and resentment towards law enforcement as a result. MLK did a lot of group discussions in youth groups about these issues. I think a potential leader could address similar things.

"How does it make you feel when you are stopped by a cop? Lets talk about it instead of rioting"

This is a tough question because there is so many things that need to be fix with both these issues.

With black on black crime, most of black on black crime incidents occur in low income communities with low socioeconomic statuses African American families. As I mentioned in previous threads, I believe classicism as well as racism both influence each other. The way classicism is structured and divided in certain communities reflects racism in an institutionalized way. IMO I believe its meant for minorities to be on the lower end of the spectrum because there are certain things implemented that keeps certain demographics at the lower end. As a result, minorities in those communities lack the necessary resources i.e. education, outside activities, health care, (both parents in the home), etc. All these factors influence black on black crime in my opinion.

A lot of young black man feel they have something to "prove" because of the way they are treated by law enforcement and society as whole. They feel they have no other options outside of street life (i.e. gangs), so they to turn to a gun and unfortunately kill their own.

To fix this problem, we would have to end institutionalized racism. Also, bring more resources to those communities and education.


As far as police brutality go,

This is another issue that is rooted in racism and since it is rooted in racism, the ratio of white cops in all black communities need to change.

There should not be 95% white cops in an all black community. I don't mean to offend anyone with that but that IS apart of the problem. There needs to be an equal ratio of multi culture cops in these police units in these black communities #1.

2. There needs to be more cameras in these communities that catches these incidents. I know within the last few years, some of these incidents have been caught on camera but a lot of these incidents occur every single day and these cops get away with it.

3. There needs to be better police training on when you draw a gun and shoot at a person. Some of the reasons why these young black men die at the hands of cops is mainly because the cop feels "threatened" and wants to exercise authority but they can do that without shooting.

4. I am afraid racism is never going to go anyway. I think racial profiling will always exist

yeah... let's make a joke about a guy minding his business with his hands up obviously getting the **** beat out of him once the police thought no one would see them do it.

Of course the leaders today aren't the same as the past. That's my whole point. Times are different now and they call for different kinds of leaders.

Yes, it's less overt. That's what "less blatant" means. And no, it's not more institutionalized now than when there were literally laws that actively discriminated against people based on the color of their skin. When I refer to institutional racism, I'm referring to racism that was enshrined in the rules and regulations of the governing institutions. Things are no longer that like that, but as we both agree, racism still persists in less overt ways.

I didn't say it was. What I'm saying is that, in additional to being a great role model, a person like Stephanie Rawlings-Blake actually has legal power over the police and other city institutions, something no civil rights leader back in the 60s ever had.

You know that "the youth" also rioted back in the 60s, right?

Thanks boo! I was waiting for you to come in here. I love reading your opinions on this issue.

But that's the thing.... times are not different because we can clearly see that the same issues that took place in the 60's still are going on today.

Racism and social issues that revolve around how institutions, corporations, law enforcement, politics etc confront this issue is still the same.

The problem with today's so called leaders it that, we don't have any real leaders that really want to change the community for the better. Most of these so called leaders just care about money and status.

There is no reason why there cant be leaders willing to risk their life and fight for the civil rights of black people like leaders did during the 60's.

But you implied that it is not as institutionalized and the opposite of institutionalized racism is overt racism and if that is not what you meant than you could have clarified that point better.


You are wrong.


It is more institutionalized now compared to the past. In the past, most of the racism was expressed explicitly through hangings, shootings, harassment and other forms of physical aggression.


Institutionalized racism does not only specifically consists of laws. It consists of the way jobs are created, classism, socioeconomic status, implicit forms of racism, i.e. standardized testing (biased testing implemented to weed out minorities who lack education on certain areas), job discrimination (i.e. picking a white person over a black person who is equally qualified) those types of issues reflect in institutionalized racism which is why those things are implemented. They keep minorities in the low socioeconomic class although it is not overtly expressed like it once was.

It is more institutionalized now because there is no longer segregation so they weed out minorities in a different way.




You gave more importance over "being an example" as the the resolution and if that is not what you meant you definitely implied it. But yes in conjuction to being a good role model, there needs to be someone actively make changes in the community.

Also, while I agree there are more minorities in policy compared to the 60's, there are still not an abundance of minorities in political positions. That is still an area that minority presence is still lacking.


If you read my first few posts I said that black youth rioted during the 60's as well. That point has already been made.

However, in today's generation, there are no black leaders to step in to re-direct the youth and guide them when these racial issues arise.