no meat this friday

The Batlord · 04-10-2015, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Yes. And no.

“We need myths that will help us to identify with all our fellow-beings, not simply with those who belong to our ethnic, national or ideological tribe. We need myths that help us to realize the importance of compassion, which is not always regarded as sufficiently productive or efficient in our pragmatic, rational world. We need myths that help us to create a spiritual attitude, to see beyond our immediate requirements, and enable us to experience a transcendent value that challenges our solipsistic selfishness. We need myths that help us to venerate the earth as sacred once again, instead of merely using it as a 'resource.' This is crucial, because unless there is some kind of spiritual revolution that is able to keep abreast of our technological genius, we will not save our planet.” - KA

The irony of that is that "KA" is proposing that we use spirituality or myths or whatever as a resource for humanity to exploit in the same way we do the Earth. Kind of goes against the ol' spirit of spirituality as a way to give yourself over to something bigger than yourself.

Chula Vista · 04-10-2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

The irony of that is that "KA" is proposing that we use spirituality or myths or whatever as a resource for humanity to exploit in the same way we do the Earth. Kind of goes against the ol' spirit of spirituality as a way to give yourself over to something bigger than yourself.

That's an extremely cynical way to look at it.

“Theology is-- or should be-- a species of poetry,which read quickly or encountered in a hubbub of noise makes no sense. You have to open yourself to a poem with a quiet, receptive mind, in the same way you might listen to a difficult piece of music... If you seize upon a poem and try to extort its meaning before you are ready, it remains opaque. If you bring your own personal agenda to bear upon it, the poem will close upon itself like a clam, because you have denied its unique and separate identity, its inviolate holiness.”

The Batlord · 04-10-2015, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

That's an extremely cynical way to look at it.

“Theology is-- or should be-- a species of poetry,which read quickly or encountered in a hubbub of noise makes no sense. You have to open yourself to a poem with a quiet, receptive mind, in the same way you might listen to a difficult piece of music... If you seize upon a poem and try to extort its meaning before you are ready, it remains opaque. If you bring your own personal agenda to bear upon it, the poem will close upon itself like a clam, because you have denied its unique and separate identity, its inviolate holiness.”

But what that's talking about is a moral system. Moral systems have no need for a god or a religion. Claiming that myths/religion/theology/magic spells are necessary to keep people in line, when what you're really talking about can be entirely secular, is using a pre-existing concept that people are already comfortable with like a chaser after a shot. Why claim that you need religion when you can just trim away the nonsense and leave the common sense teachings that require no priest or altar?

Xurtio · 04-10-2015, 09:43 AM

Reminds me of Principia Chaotica
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/chaos/princhao.txt

The Batlord · 04-10-2015, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

Reminds me of Principia Chaotica
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/chaos/princhao.txt

A religion tailor made for trolls and psychopaths. Sign me up.

Chula Vista · 04-10-2015, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

But what that's talking about is a moral system. Moral systems have no need for a god or a religion. Claiming that myths/religion/theology/magic spells are necessary to keep people in line, when what you're really talking about can be entirely secular, is using a pre-existing concept that people are already comfortable with like a chaser after a shot. Why claim that you need religion when you can just trim away the nonsense and leave the common sense teachings that require no priest or altar?

Because for so many, they need some sort of guidance that hints at a "higher meaning" in order to accept it. I'm talking about the kind of sheeple that would be chewed up and spit out within hours of signing up to this forum.

The bible teaches love, tolerance, acceptance, sacrifice, humility, et al.

Unfortunately, a few of the 50 or so authors who wrote the thing over the course of 2,500 years decided to include hints of homophobia, elitism, greed, and intolerance. So many of the weak minded people of today latch onto those ideas as absolute.

F*ck them. Anyone who accepts God and the Bible, and who's not willing to admit the fact that the whole thing is gloriously imperfect, is a dumbass zombie.

The Batlord · 04-10-2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Because for so many, they need some sort of guidance that hints at a "higher meaning" in order to accept it. I'm talking about the kind of sheeple that would be chewed up and spit out within hours of signing up to this forum.

Unfortunately I agree. It's why I don't much rail against religion anymore. I might hold the same hardline views about it that I've always had, but a large majority of the world's population appear to need the kind of guidance provided by religion.

But the quotes you posted seemed to be from people who, whether they are consciously aware of it or not (I don't know enough about them to know if they're atheists, agnostics, or actual theists), see through the smoke and mirrors and yet still encourage religious belief. I might accept the need, or at least current inevitability of religion, but the idea of actively, personally advocating it would be repulsive to me.

Chula Vista · 04-10-2015, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

But the quotes you posted seemed to be from a person who, whether they are consciously aware of it or not, see through the smoke and mirrors and yet still encourage a SPIRITUAL belief.

Fixed.

I've read thousands of books and none of them have f*cked up my world more than this one.

The Case for God: Karen Armstrong: 9780307389800: Amazon.com: Books

Quote:

"Karen Armstrong, in writing The Case for God, provides the reader with one of the very best theological works of our time. It brings a new understanding to the complex relationship between human existence and the transcendent nature of God. This is a book that is so well researched and so deep with insight and soaring scholarship that only Karen Armstrong could have written it. The Case for God should be required reading for anyone who claims to be a believer, an agnostic, or an atheist." —Reverend John Bryson Chane

The Batlord · 04-10-2015, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Fixed.

I've read thousands of books and none of them have f*cked up my world more than this one.

The Case for God: Karen Armstrong: 9780307389800: Amazon.com: Books

Granted, I've never read that book, but advocating spirituality rather than religion is like advocating democracy without corrupt politicians: pointless and delusional. People are going to act according to their nature, and all the reasoned arguments and common sense in the world aren't even going to amount to a pile of dog turds. The only people who are going to listen are already in the choir.

Honestly, if you're spiritual while being concerned with the beliefs of the outside world, you might as well just be a LaVeyan Satanist. You're not going to get anything out of trying to spread the Good Word, so you might as well reap the benefits of being a free-thinker by taking advantage of the "sheeple". Otherwise, just ignore the idiots.

Chula Vista · 04-10-2015, 12:57 PM

Dude...

04-10-2015, 09:43 AM	#224 (permalink)
Xurtio Brain Licker Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,083	Reminds me of Principia Chaotica http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/chaos/princhao.txt __________________ H̓̇̅̉yͤ͏mͬ͂ͧn͑̽̽̌ͪ̑͐͟o̴͊̈́͑̇m͛͌̓ͦ̑aͫ̽ͤ̇n̅̎͐̒ͫ͐c̆ͯͫ̋ ̔̃́eͯ͒rͬͬ̄҉

04-10-2015, 12:57 PM	#230 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Dude... __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”