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View Poll Results: Do you like socialism? (explain reasons in thread)
Yes 17 58.62%
No 11 37.93%
I'm confused 1 3.45%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-19-2018, 06:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Heroin junkies that steal from their friends/family, don't work, and fuck society deserve to be poor unless by some circumstance they are not the reason they are addicts. You can only help someone so many times...
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I'd vote for Trump
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Heroin junkies that steal from their friends/family, don't work, and fuck society deserve to be poor unless by some circumstance they are not the reason they are addicts. You can only help someone so many times...
I try to keep away from even recovering (or recovered or whatever) junkies because I’ve had so many bad experiences

but

they shouldn’t be abandoned to suffer any more than cancer patients
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wait, why was Hawk banned?
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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heavily disagree with the entire line of thinking here

drug addiction is a medical issue generally tied to an attempt to self medicate a larger mental health issue

the answer to this problem is 100% nuture
I'm not willing to ruin the lives of many to save one person who didnt think about the impact of their decisions.. and of all the people I know who OD'd it was because they thought it was fun to abuse prescription drugs and moved on to heroin. See, I have anecdotes too.

Your whole attitude of making everyone suffer so a few can rise up is the opposite of productive. I have no interest in helping those who don't make an effort to help themselves unless they are literally incapable of making an effort from some debilitating factor. Doing heroin because you think it's fun, when you grew up in white suburbia and were educated, and then spiraled out of control is not a case worth helping unless that person is actively trying to get clean and rehabilitate. Only after I help everyone else that wants to improve do they get my help. Someone has to be picked last, that's just reality, get your priorities in order.

What's your experience with junkies who you actually know and witnessed? Not the randos you met in your punk days.
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I'd vote for Trump
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The difference between junkies and cancer patients is that the disease junkies suffer from does not make them sympathetic. Both have diseases that destroy them but the junkie's disease is one of the mind that is hard to conceptualize. I don't like associating with junkies either since my experience with them is that they are toxic to everyone they know, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a debilitating disease worthy of sympathy, no matter how galling it is to give them that sympathy.
I'll just agree to disagree with the first deleted part because there are plenty of examples in history of wage minorities creating positive change and revolutions, that I'm sure you're not ignorant of.

The difference between junkies and cancer patients is junkies gave themselves the disease. See my response to Elph.

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It was an honest series of questions. No need to be condescending. I get the feeling that you think I'm some extremist who wants to abolish all Capitalism, just because I recognize and acknowledge the human fuel such a system requires to function, even though you acknowledge it as well.

Btw, you and I seem to have similar lives. Worked since I was old enough, paid my way through college. I also try not to blame other people when I fuck up, and push myself to be better than I am.

I wasn't trying to say that you're a trust funder who has never worked hard, or whatever you seem to really want me to be implying.

My point was that the very fact that you and I were born in the most powerful nation in the world and were given the rare opportunity to even have a chance to succeed, to put our hard work to use in bettering ourselves and our situations, is an opportunity that was crafted from the misery of millions who were never given such an opportunity themselves. For people like us to "pull ourselves up by the bootstraps", millions have to go without. You've already agreed with this.



This is a really weird backtrack. You **** on Batlord and Elph, and then say that you're not jeering at anyone. Just own it. You look down on them. It's fine. Everybody on MD does.

And nah, not offended, just shooting the shit. Don't know why every internet debater has to throw up some "lol, u mad?" or "triggered" whenever they start to run out of steam. It's like whoever admits to actually being passionate about the topic is the loser by virtue of caring, 'cause only nerds care. Honestly, it's getting really boring.



Please show me where I advocated a band-aid fix in favor of a long term solution. Also please show me where I disregarded the power of human thought over the grand course of humanity's existence.

My point was that, specifically in the here and now, wage slaves in third world countries are given no chances to escape their caste. The mindset these people hold has virtually no correlation to their level of success. You've already agreed with this.

A person in our country, in the position that you and I were both born into, has more opportunities to succeed, and to have positive thinking and hard work affect their quality of life (though there still aren't any guarentees). Rising out of extreme poverty in the US can be done, even though it is oftentimes a matter of luck, of being fortunate enough to get out before various things permanently lock you into place. But the foundation of the economy and society that we both reap the benefits of, came from, and continues to come from, the unskilled labor of the international masses. You've already agreed with this as well.

In fact, we agree on pretty much everything. I think the main thing you take issue with is that you've come to the conclusion that I actually support overthrowing our Capitalist structure, or that I think human willpower is never relevant in any situation. I don't. I also don't think that every person living above poverty is evil, or that there aren't many people that make bad choices and negatively affect their own futures. Much more about adding various Socialist ideas and functions to our society to balance it in small but progressively effective ways. Especially when it comes to healthcare.
You asked me why I was jeering at them. I don't consider pointing out things they can improve jeering given the context of the conversation and the position I'm taking. I don't look down on them at all.

I responded that way because you saying that I should be thanking them or whatever implies exactly what you're denying. Perhaps it was said sarcastically, idk, I was just responding. And no that wasn't some sort of "u mad, bro?".

You seem to be missing the fact that I think success is relative to the reality you experience.

The last part was directed at Batlord, which I quoted him on, unless I ****ed up the post. I didnt check it after I commented.

Edit: Also, I don't think anything about you. I don't know you at all since you don't disclose, or I've missed the times when you did, much about yourself.
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I'd vote for Trump

Last edited by DwnWthVwls; 07-19-2018 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The difference between junkies and cancer patients is junkies gave themselves the disease. See my response to Elph.
Do you think that the correlation between the increased amount of prescribed opioids and the increased amount of heroin users/overdoses is significant? Human brains love dope, are people responsible for the outcome of taking advice from someone that society tells them to trust? Are you cool with me using leading questions?
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Do you think that the correlation between the increased amount of prescribed opioids and the increased amount of heroin users/overdoses is significant? Human brains love dope, are people responsible for the outcome of taking advice from someone that society tells them to trust? Are you cool with me using leading questions?
This just brings us back to the conversation we had not long ago about a lack of education, people blaming mcdonalds for getting fat, and general irresponsibility of the individual. I've already excused people who get addicted via some external force. I guess you didn't read my anecdote, which represents probably 90% of the junkies I've dealt with in my life.
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I'd vote for Trump
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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lack of education
Do you expect people to take responsible courses of actions that they're not aware of?

Is family considered an external influence?
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Do you expect people to take responsible courses of actions that they're not aware of?

Is family considered an external influence?
I expect people to do a bit of research and ask their doctors questions. I expect people to follow the prescription instructions. I expect general skepticism, especially NOW when the opiod crisis is well known.

Not unless they are shoving pills down your throat.
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I'd vote for Trump
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You asked me why I was jeering at them. I don't consider pointing out things they can improve jeering given the context of the conversation and the position I'm taking. I don't look down on them at all.
Except that you literally were. The "bravo" at the end was a nice touch, btw...

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Poll the audience.. a drunk Batlord who's an intelligent dude wasting his BK money on Steel Reserve when he has the luxury of living at home instead of going to school to get a better job to help out his moms.. and Elph who gives a whole lotta fucks about people and the world, but tends to ignore the reality in which he faces to strive for an unrealistic utopia. Bravo.


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I responded that way because you saying that I should be thanking them or whatever implies exactly what you're denying.
What am I denying?

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Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
You seem to be missing the fact that I think success is relative to the reality you experience.
Which is what I just said. I even said that we agreed on this point. You did read my post, right?

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If there was not a single homeless person and everyone had access to food, shelter, healthcare, and clean water are you still anti-class? Idgaf, if other people are mo richer than me.
I actually pretty much already answered this before you even asked it. But if you'd like to know my answer, then just read my last post again. Especially the bit at the end where I said that I don't want a big revolution or whatever, I'm more interested in integrating Socialist ideas into our Capitalist system that can ease some of the overwhelming burdens of society. Like working towards a healthcare system that doesn't put people into debt just for the privilege of not dying from a horrible disease, or for more affordable housing when the real estate market is as bloated as it is today. My main priority is to make sure that everybody has their basic human needs covered, regardless of their status or situation. Beyond that, it's not like I want to start a class war, or something.
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