Socialism

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 02-18-2015, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPOCH6

Absolutely.

But of course it's rampant capitalism that will get us to the point where that becomes an option. It's rampant capitalism that produces the Googles, SpaceXs, Boston Dynamics', and Microsofts that invent the technologies capable of automating large and complex functions of social systems. The interesting thing about the future possibility of primarily automated social systems is that it very well could be inevitable, we may subconsciously push ourselves into that world. Inventors more often than not have no idea that their invention will have the impact that it does. Arthur Scherbius, the inventor of the Enigma Machine, a communications security device, had no idea he was initiating the evolution of personal computers, he was just earning a paycheck and trying to help his country. Robert H. Goddard didn't know he was ushering in the birth of the Space Age when he invented early liquid-fueled rockets.

Once these devices are invented and become public their evolution is no longer controlled by purpose or intent. You end up with a hive of engineers, technicians, and developers simultaneously swarming the device, modifying it this way and that way, and its future impact becomes entirely unpredictable, the competitive tech industry subconsciously pushes it forward to serve a much larger purpose. And seeing as the vague primary goal of all technological evolution is to automate and simplify processes that were previously done manually, all technology inevitably pushes us further towards automated society.

Capitalism will force itself into obsolescence.

i see it more as capitalism is one way to create an incentive for technological progress. it's certainly not the only way. and i tend to think it's more effective as a way to make that technology ubiquitous than it is at actually funding the (often not immediately profitable) frontier research that is necessary to make serious technological advances.

e.g. the first computer was built out of a need to slaughter nazis, not based on consumer demand. the archetype for the internet was a military project. the first attempts towards space travel and all of the technological progress that this has inadvertently seeded were mainly fueled by the cold war. etc.

Guybrush · 02-20-2015, 07:59 PM

I'm a social democrat leaning to the left here in Norway, which probably means I'd seem like a complete communist to the average US citizen.

I think capitalism is very useful in some instances and not so much in others. An example I can mention where I think it's not is private schools. I think if you live in a democracy, that essentially means the people rule the country - of course through voting, but it also should mean that normal people can become politicians. When people rule the nation, it is important that these people are well educated so that they can make the best possible decisions (generally, the best possible decisions are those that promote the best quality of life for its citizens in the long run). From there, it seems to make sense to have the best possible public schools and no private schools. The reason being, if private schools offer better education at a higher cost, it becomes a privilege for those with money and their children will on average be better off and will send their children to private schools. There's a feedback loop. Meanwhile, you will also get the less fortunate who will not afford private school and will send their kids to public schools that are now considered second rate - and those kids will eventually, on average, produce their own children who go to public schools (another feedback loop). More competition for people to get into private schools might mean tuition fees increase, making it more impossible to get into for the less fortunate and what you essentially end up with is a system which helps create a society of class difference. Class difference means a society of winners and losers, but generally a lot more losers than winners as money rise to the top. These losers are now people who on average are less educated, but they still make up the bulk of the country's voters. So the bulk of society's voters have become the least educated. So, believing in democracy and believing in systems that cause and perpetuate class differences at the same time seems contrary to me.

This is just a general jist. Most of the private schools here don't offer a better education so much as a different one, typically mixing some kind of religious indoctrination into the curriculum. I wish they'd all get shut down.

RL Clown · 03-19-2015, 05:02 PM

First of all, thank you for posting this topic. I don't like socialism. Let me explain why... I come from a Chinese and Vietnamese background. I know the corruption of communism (and socialism is the little brother of communism). Communism tries to make everyone equal by giving everyone the same salary. But if you make everyone equal, you need to make sure that human beings cannot be over-achievers. If human beings make too much money, they are becoming capitalists. So how do you make sure that human beings do not make too much money? You set up a dictatorship... You bully the common people (they must follow your rules or else you can do whatever you want with them). Now, I know that China and Vietnam have changed a lot over the years. But do these countries really have freedom of speech? It's questionable... I'm not dissing countries; I'm just saying. Socialism is not very different from communism... The only difference is the fact that the common people are allowed to run small businesses. The government controls ALL of the big businesses. We need more people who are trying to break the mold! We need more people like Bill Gates and Donald Trump. A country cannot function under socialism (sorry but it's true). A country can only function under capitalism and democracy. Capitalism and democracy worked for Ancient Greece.

Xurtio · 03-19-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RL Clown

First of all, thank you for posting this topic. I don't like socialism. Let me explain why... I come from a Chinese and Vietnamese background. I know the corruption of communism (and socialism is the little brother of communism). Communism tries to make everyone equal by giving everyone the same salary. But if you make everyone equal, you need to make sure that human beings cannot be over-achievers. If human beings make too much money, they are becoming capitalists. So how do you make sure that human beings do not make too much money? You set up a dictatorship... You bully the common people (they must follow your rules or else you can do whatever you want with them). Now, I know that China and Vietnam have changed a lot over the years. But do these countries really have freedom of speech? It's questionable... I'm not dissing countries; I'm just saying. Socialism is not very different from communism... The only difference is the fact that the common people are allowed to run small businesses. The government controls ALL of the big businesses. We need more people who are trying to break the mold! We need more people like Bill Gates and Donald Trump. A country cannot function under socialism (sorry but it's true). A country can only function under capitalism and democracy. Capitalism and democracy worked for Ancient Greece.

I think enforcing socialist principles through government in a democracy is the ideal, rather than it being either/or.

Isbjørn · 03-25-2018, 05:35 AM

Holy ****, this thread was older than I thought, but I figure there's no point in creating a new one about the same topic just because.

This lecture from Michael Parenti on racism, sexism and class struggle is essential for anyone who considers themself progressive or left-wing, even though the introduction music sounds like abuse. Parenti is one of the clearest and most important Marxist intellectuals alive today.

OccultHawk · 07-10-2018, 08:39 AM

https://apple.news/ANkP-hY51RWqtEEm8vo10xw

Quote:

A New Jersey woman on oxygen dies after the power company shuts off her electricity

**Goofle** · 07-11-2018, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

everyone should like socialism in its barest definition that workers ought to run the factories but lots of people are just authoritarian they like being dragged by the nose and dragging others by the nose the most disgusting sin as far as I'm concerned

No. It's a stupid idea on the barest level.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 07-13-2018, 12:39 AM

The Fountainhead
https://ia601502.us.archive.org/22/i...0180619/29.pdf

The Road To Serfdom With The Intellectuals And Socialism
https://ia801309.us.archive.org/34/i...cialism%5D.pdf

Socialism And The Churches
https://ia601502.us.archive.org/15/i...0180619/25.pdf

The Batlord · 07-13-2018, 03:38 AM

Oh god a Randroid.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 07-13-2018, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Oh god a Randroid.

I'm not a fan, but it is a good example of Socialist ideology.

View Poll Results: Do you like socialism? (explain reasons in thread)
Yes	17	58.62%
No	11	37.93%
I'm confused	1	3.45%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

02-20-2015, 07:59 PM	#62 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I'm a social democrat leaning to the left here in Norway, which probably means I'd seem like a complete communist to the average US citizen. I think capitalism is very useful in some instances and not so much in others. An example I can mention where I think it's not is private schools. I think if you live in a democracy, that essentially means the people rule the country - of course through voting, but it also should mean that normal people can become politicians. When people rule the nation, it is important that these people are well educated so that they can make the best possible decisions (generally, the best possible decisions are those that promote the best quality of life for its citizens in the long run). From there, it seems to make sense to have the best possible public schools and no private schools. The reason being, if private schools offer better education at a higher cost, it becomes a privilege for those with money and their children will on average be better off and will send their children to private schools. There's a feedback loop. Meanwhile, you will also get the less fortunate who will not afford private school and will send their kids to public schools that are now considered second rate - and those kids will eventually, on average, produce their own children who go to public schools (another feedback loop). More competition for people to get into private schools might mean tuition fees increase, making it more impossible to get into for the less fortunate and what you essentially end up with is a system which helps create a society of class difference. Class difference means a society of winners and losers, but generally a lot more losers than winners as money rise to the top. These losers are now people who on average are less educated, but they still make up the bulk of the country's voters. So the bulk of society's voters have become the least educated. So, believing in democracy and believing in systems that cause and perpetuate class differences at the same time seems contrary to me. This is just a general jist. Most of the private schools here don't offer a better education so much as a different one, typically mixing some kind of religious indoctrination into the curriculum. I wish they'd all get shut down. __________________ Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 02-20-2015 at 08:13 PM.

03-25-2018, 05:35 AM	#65 (permalink)
Isbjørn cooler commie than elph Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: In a hole, help Posts: 2,811	Holy ****, this thread was older than I thought, but I figure there's no point in creating a new one about the same topic just because. This lecture from Michael Parenti on racism, sexism and class struggle is essential for anyone who considers themself progressive or left-wing, even though the introduction music sounds like abuse. Parenti is one of the clearest and most important Marxist intellectuals alive today. __________________ fast(ml) Hear me play the guitar Look, mom! I got a journal

03-19-2015, 05:02 PM	#63 (permalink)
RL Clown Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 182	First of all, thank you for posting this topic. I don't like socialism. Let me explain why... I come from a Chinese and Vietnamese background. I know the corruption of communism (and socialism is the little brother of communism). Communism tries to make everyone equal by giving everyone the same salary. But if you make everyone equal, you need to make sure that human beings cannot be over-achievers. If human beings make too much money, they are becoming capitalists. So how do you make sure that human beings do not make too much money? You set up a dictatorship... You bully the common people (they must follow your rules or else you can do whatever you want with them). Now, I know that China and Vietnam have changed a lot over the years. But do these countries really have freedom of speech? It's questionable... I'm not dissing countries; I'm just saying. Socialism is not very different from communism... The only difference is the fact that the common people are allowed to run small businesses. The government controls ALL of the big businesses. We need more people who are trying to break the mold! We need more people like Bill Gates and Donald Trump. A country cannot function under socialism (sorry but it's true). A country can only function under capitalism and democracy. Capitalism and democracy worked for Ancient Greece.

07-13-2018, 12:39 AM	#68 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,814	The Fountainhead https://ia601502.us.archive.org/22/i...0180619/29.pdf *The Road To Serfdom With The Intellectuals And Socialism* https://ia801309.us.archive.org/34/i...cialism%5D.pdf *Socialism And The Churches* https://ia601502.us.archive.org/15/i...0180619/25.pdf