Socialism

**Frownland** · 07-19-2018, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I expect people to do a bit of research and asking their doctors questions. I expect people to follow the prescription instructions. I expect general skepticism, especially NOW when the opiod crisis is well known.

You already said that lack of education is a leading cause. Do you consider a broken education system to be an outside force?

**Frownland** · 07-19-2018, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

if it didn't work it wouldn't make up one of the largest parts of their budget

Children's toys or marketing? Marketing is one of the largest parts of most companies' budgets.

DwnWthVwls · 07-19-2018, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

well toy companies don't advertise to parents "hey buy this for your kids"

they rely on the children to ask their parents for it

but specifically for McD it's a lot more nefarious than that, another goal is to raise children with McD as part of their childhood so as adults they continue to associate the brand with those feelings of happiness

and it worked and now adults who were kids from the 80's feed their own kids the toxic slime

More excuses less personal responsibility. Got it. You making excuses isn't going to change my mind no matter how many times we have this convo. So how about that psychologist meta analysis you mentioned and answering the question about the class system I asked without strawmaning me. Cool, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You already said that lack of education is a leading cause. Do you consider a broken education system to be an outside force?

No. Lack of education about a product does not mean youre unable to educate yourself before consuming it. It just means youre ignorant to the specificity of the scenario.

I'd consider it an external force if the education you received was so poor you are literally unable to find resources or people to aid you in understanding.

**Frownland** · 07-19-2018, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I'd consider it an external force if the education you received was so poor you are literally unable to find resources or people to aid you in understanding.

That's obviously what I was referring to. If people aren't taught to be skeptical, why should we expect them to be? If people are never taught how to utilize the wealth of knowledge that the internet has to offer to improve themselves, why should we expect them to?

DwnWthVwls · 07-19-2018, 10:17 PM

I'd give them a pass if that were the case, but I can't admit to knowing anyone that behind the times except some old people, and that's not the demographic of the opiod crisis.

**Frownland** · 07-19-2018, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

right marketing

What about up marketing or false marketing?

The Batlord · 07-19-2018, 10:18 PM

DWV, you sound like you believe in your heart of hearts in some myth of free will. Free will is nonexistent. We are biological machines. The stimuli that rule us are so complex and impossible to conceptualize for the human brain that it's second nature for people to believe in free will, but it doesn't exist. The concept of personal responsibility is meaningless in such a world. I get that you have extensive experience with junkies, but it sounds to me like your emotional investment in your emotional reactions to those people is clouding your rationality. You say you don't judge but you sound pretty judgmental to me.

DwnWthVwls · 07-19-2018, 10:23 PM

@Batty
That's an entire thread of it's own with many definitions to work through.

I'm not exactly sure what you are calling me out on for being judgemental about. So I can't confirm or deny if I have some bias. I can assure you I have no emotional investment in the topic though, other than my emotional attachment to personal responsibility.

@Elph
Edit: It's not a platitude. It is the reality we all face. I'm sorry you can't accept there are consequences for our actions and some people make bad decisions even when it is possible for them to make good ones.

You seem to want to paint me as rigid and unreasonable despite the adversities one might face, but I think I've shown several times that my criticisms are based around those times when someone is capable of choosing something good or bad for them and they willingly partake in the bad thing because short term gratification. I'm not preaching some Ben Shapiro form of bootstrapping completely oblivious to external and historical factors.

**Frownland** · 07-19-2018, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't know that there's no free will, nobody can know that

I just think there's so many factors outside of an individuals control that influences both the decisions he/she makes and the outcomes of those decisions as to make a conversation about individual responsibility only good for empty platitudes

Totally agreed. You are everything that you've ever experienced with a little bit of your ancestors' genes thrown in as a wild card. You can't control a lot of who you are and that includes the ability to control who you are. Unless you're me, of course. I'm not even human.

DwnWthVwls · 07-19-2018, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I pretty much know this

you're clinging to a religion here, I know it's hard to let go

Ive asked you multiple times to show me the facts and you dodge providing them every time. Youre facts are not facts without evidence and im happy to change my mind when provided with information. I've also conceded a couple times within this conversation that dibilitating factors the contribute to poor decision making is something I do in fact consider in my position.

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