Socialism

Oriphiel · 07-18-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

According to Batlord, Goofle speaks the truth. We need hierarchy to function.

Maybe if yall weren't a bunch of lazy buttholes because "minimum wage job doesn't care about me so fuck them", you'd actually ditch the complacent attitudes and achieve something. You don't have to like your job to avoid making excuses for being lazy. Where's your sense of self-worth? If you don't value your own actions why should others?

Wage slave workers are the basis of our capitalist economy. It takes thousands of grunts to create the stability for a few hundred to live above the means of the masses, and it takes millions to allow the wealth hoarders that reap hilariously massive benefits from the rest of society. There is a limited amount of money in our economy. It is literally impoasible for everyone to be successful.

It doesn't even matter if you're rich, you still owe "lazy butthole" wage slaves for everything you own, and are allowed to be. They created the stability you enjoy, the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the car you drive and roads you drive on, the buildings that give you shelter, the means for you to get an education, etc.

Your mental state doesn't matter so much as luck. Even if you're dirt poor but work your ass off to get a full ride, there are thousands of pitfalls that can permanently **** you through no fault of your own. If you, by chance, started off poor but now have a nice life, then count your lucky ****ing stars rather than **** on other people for not bending over hard enough to reach their bootstraps.

To continue in their excess, the top of society need these millions of wage slave jobs to be filled, and they will be filled.

Oriphiel · 07-18-2018, 09:07 PM

****, DwnWthVwls is bringing out the comrade in me.

DwnWthVwls · 07-18-2018, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

You need to change the way that humans interact with and relate to the power structures in their lives and to do that you need to change the power structures first..

And how do you suppose we do that? I say expect more from ourselves and each other, you say "meh, I'm stuck"...

OH can rip me all he wants for appreciating the 3rd grade poster quote about being the change you want to see, but as far as I can tell it is the single best option to change the world and society. Idc, how much I get **** on for it, I'm not going to give up, and I don't care if I never get to witness it or if it never happens. I'm trying and not making excuses. You think I want to not eat delicious animals? No, but it's what I believe is right and I'm working towards it, and I approach ever facet of life this way.

FTR, I don't even disagree with Elph. I know very little about the kind of work environments he's talking about. I just felt like throwing a little jab at you.

The Batlord · 07-18-2018, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't know if it's what you're trying to say Batlord, but they stay "lazy and stupid" because the system demands it

in capitalism it's assumed you will have a large segment of the population that's basically hopeless grunt workers, it can't work any differently without major adjustments to the framework of the economy

Yes and without the encouragement by society to be anything more they will happily not challenge themselves by reading books or whatever to educate themselves on any given subject (don't act like your fellow wage slaves actually want to read) that might expand their minds and increase their "value" to society. A large percentage or poor people distrust intellectualism not simply because they don't believe that it will benefit them but because it is often considered alien to their culture and even threatening (e.g. science being seen as an enemy to religion), not to mention the intimidating notion of actually learning itself.

If they did educate themselves on things like politics, science, economics, etc they might just sit up straight and wonder what the **** they're even doing living in this drudgery, but that would be effort they often don't even believe wouldn't be a waste given their current circumstances and yes given the hurdles they actually know about that keep them where they are, to say nothing of the hurdles they're not even aware of.

DwnWthVwls · 07-18-2018, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Wage slave workers are the basis of our capitalist economy. It takes thousands of grunts to create the stability for a few hundred to live above the means of the masses, and it takes millions to allow the wealth hoarders that reap hilariously massive benefits from the rest of society. There is a limited amount of money in our economy. It is literally impoasible for everyone to be successful.

It doesn't even matter if you're rich, you still owe "lazy butthole" wage slaves for everything you own, and are allowed to be. They created the stability you enjoy, the clothes you wear, the food you eat, the car you drive and roads you drive on, the buildings that give you shelter, the means for you to get an education, etc.

Your mental state doesn't matter so much as luck. Even if you're dirt poor but work your ass off to get a full ride, there are thousands of pitfalls that can permanently **** you through no fault of your own. If you, by chance, started off poor but now have a nice life, then count your lucky ****ing stars rather than **** on other people for not bending over hard enough to reach their bootstraps.

To continue in their excess, the top of society need these millions of wage slave jobs to be filled, and they will be filled.

Is that supposed to be a counter-argument? Cause I don't disagree, and it doesn't undermine my position.

Except for the mental state vs luck thing.. That's horseshit. Every single person can strive to do better and likely will do better even if it's still minimum wage for life. Luck is just that.

I'd never shit on anyone for putting in effort and not getting anywhere, but if you're not trying than I'm not caring all that much. And this doesn't apply to people who literally can't try because they suffer from things like depression and such.

Oriphiel · 07-18-2018, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

And how do you suppose we do that? I say expect more from ourselves and each other, you say "meh, I'm stuck"...

OH can rip me all he wants for appreciating the 3rd grade poster quote about being the change you want to see, but as far as I can tell that is the single best option to change the world and society. Idc, how much I get **** on for it, I'm not going to give up, and I don't care if I never get to witness it or it never happens. I tried, I didn't make excuses.

The only reason you got to try is because millions of wage slaves who didn't get that chance put you in that position. All of your successes, the fact that you were allowed to succeed at all, is not because you're a go-getter who refuses to be lazy. Thousands of people who try to start businesses and work twice as many hours a day as you do get bankrupted and driven into homelessness every year by large conglomerates like Monsanto. Work hard all your life, you'll still lose everything when the 1% decide it's time.

"Be the change you want to see," is meaningless when the elite don't feel like allowing you to see that change.

DwnWthVwls · 07-18-2018, 09:34 PM

Show me one anecdote of that example, bet you cant find one that wasn't based around bad decision making by the person. Sounds like a typical case of living beyond your means and not saving any money. Health issues are more likely to bankrupt you and fuck you outta no where than the 1%.

That change isnt some grandiose utopian fantasy.. it's the little things that add up. I'm not trying to start a revolution, I'm trying to make the lives of everyone I come in contact with a little nicer and reduce suffering where ever possible. You should try it.

Still ain't seen the lot of you propose a better solution to my question. You all sit here with your high horse opinions and criticisms and don't even have a suggestion. Truly inspiring.

Oriphiel · 07-18-2018, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Is that supposed to be a counter-argument? Cause I don't disagree, and it doesn't undermine my position.

Except for the mental state vs luck thing.. That's horseshit. Every single person can strive to do better and likely will do better even if it's still minimum wage for life. Luck is just that.

Actually, it completely destroys your whole stance. I find it funny that you actually agreed with me until that edit. Shows that you admit that I'm right, that our current economy literally couldn't function if everybody was allowed to be a winner, that every single thing you achieve supposedly due to your own bootstrappy hard work is actually indebted to the "lazy" grunts you **** on. Society needs slaves, either willing or otherwise, and it will get those slaves. All the feel-good mentalities in the world won't help the people that need to suffer for you to live in your current comfort.

Were you born in a situation where you have one disabled parent and a bunch of younger siblings to feed, and you are the only one that can support all of them, but only through giving up your future in lieu of double shifts at multiple minimum wage jobs? Did you grow up in a ****ty neighborhood, and get permanently crippled after getting caught in the crossfire of a drive-by? Were you born with a mental disorder that went undiagnosed in your school years, and destroyed any hope of a scholarship? Did you develop a life threatening illness, and have to choose between college and not dying?

And I don't think I even need to mention the countries we outsource to and depend on, that are more overt in asserting wage slavery castes. Try telling a peasant in India to shut and work harder and be happy, and maybe one day he'll be a cool dude.

And I gave you an example. Actually, I gave you thousands; the name Monsanto is enough. Google their ****fests at your leisure, like how they spread their patented engineered seeds on farmland that they want, and blackmail the owners to sell out dirt cheap or be sued into oblivion for patent infringement. In fact, look up all of the major corporations active in America, and have fun sorting through their collective atrocities.

America is a roulette wheel. You place your bet where you want, and some win while most lose, because the casino couldn't function unless most lose. Every winner walks away thinking it's because they're such a good gambler. The truth is that only the house ever really wins.

DwnWthVwls · 07-18-2018, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Actually, it completely destroys your whole stance. I find it funny that you actually agreed with me until that edit. Shows that you admit that I'm right, that our current economy literally couldn't function if everybody was allowed to be a winner

You clearly don't understand my definition of winner and I know plenty about Monsanto.

Get back to me when you can answer my question and not just bitch and moan.

Oriphiel · 07-18-2018, 10:05 PM

I've destroyed everything you've written. You even agree with me, and my examples. The comfort and success you enjoy couldn't exist without millions worldwide being in misery. It's easy to say that happiness is a state of mind, or that wealth isn't a gauge of who is a true winner, when you're not the one in the sweatshop.

You agree that our society needs people forced into wage slavery so that people like you can exist above it. And yet you think telling someone to grab their bootstraps (which were made by kids in China, btw) when the whole basis and stability of our economy is hedged on the fact that millions literally can't rise above poverty or else **** can't funcion, is bizarre.

The first part of dealing with a problem is to recognize that there is one. Whether I have an alternative or not is irrelevent.

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07-18-2018, 09:07 PM	#112 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	****, DwnWthVwls is bringing out the comrade in me. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

07-18-2018, 10:05 PM	#120 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	I've destroyed everything you've written. You even agree with me, and my examples. The comfort and success you enjoy couldn't exist without millions worldwide being in misery. It's easy to say that happiness is a state of mind, or that wealth isn't a gauge of who is a true winner, when you're not the one in the sweatshop. You agree that our society needs people forced into wage slavery so that people like you can exist above it. And yet you think telling someone to grab their bootstraps (which were made by kids in China, btw) when the whole basis and stability of our economy is hedged on the fact that millions literally can't rise above poverty or else **** can't funcion, is bizarre. The first part of dealing with a problem is to recognize that there is one. Whether I have an alternative or not is irrelevent. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------