Reasons you believe God/don't believe God?

The Batlord · 12-29-2015, 02:34 PM

Agnostics are just atheists uncomfortable with the label. If you do not believe that a god exists, whether or not you claim that he/she/it/they/??? probably does not exist, then you are an atheist by definition.

There is a difference between agnostic atheists and gnostic atheists: agnostic atheists do not have a god belief, but they do not claim to know or that it is knowable whether or not a god exists; gnostic atheists claim to know whether or not a god exists. There are no atheists with a brain who are gnostic atheists, as it is not a logically defensible position. The term merely exists as a counterpoint to gnostic theists, who claim to know that a god exists.

**Janszoon** · 12-29-2015, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

That sounds more like an agnostic.

Atheist deny the existence of god or any divine being.

Nah, it's atheism—a lack of belief in a god or gods. One can be an atheist and still be open to changing one's mind if the right evidence presents itself. Like Frowny said, that's the position most atheists take.

Agnosticism is actually a belief about the nature of knowledge, i.e. that the answer to question of the existence of god is unknowable.

Chula Vista · 12-29-2015, 02:37 PM

At The Bat.

The Batlord · 12-29-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Nah, it's atheism—a lack of belief in a god or gods. One can be an atheist and still be open to changing one's mind if the right evidence presents itself. Like Frowny said, that's the position most atheists take.

Agnosticism is actually a belief about the nature of knowledge, i.e. that the answer to question of the existence of god is unknowable.

Indeed. "Agnostic" is merely a stance on, as Janz said, the nature of knowledge, not a stance on one's stated belief. In the context of theist/atheist, "agnostic" is merely a modifier that delineates between those who claim that it is possible to know one way or the other (gnostic) and those who don't (agnostic).

Hence the terms "gnostic theist" (holds a belief in god, and claims that his existence is knowable), "agnostic theist" (holds a belief in god, but claims that his existence is unknowable), "agnostic atheist" (does not hold a belief in god, but claims that it is unknowable), and "gnostic theist" (does not hold a belief in god, and claims that his existence is knowable).

Unless someone can remind me of any more positions, those are the only four positions it is possible to take, whether or not you are comfortable admitting to any of them.

Black Francis · 12-29-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Nah, it's atheism—a lack of belief in a god or gods. One can be an atheist and still be open to changing one's mind if the right evidence presents itself. Like Frowny said, that's the position most atheists take.

That still sounds like an agnostic to me.

Im not gonna refute you guys though, what you are saying makes sense. maybe batty is right, i choose to be defined as an agnostic because i don't like being defined as an atheist because that term feels too definitive.

The Batlord · 12-29-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

That still sounds like an agnostic to me.

Im not gonna refute you guys though, what you are saying makes sense. maybe batty is right, i choose to be defined as an agnostic because i don't like being defined as an atheist because that term feels too definitive.

It's only as definitive as you make it. It's not like you're going to go from agnostic to hardcore Evangelical anymore than a "proud" atheist is going to. And you probably don't expect evidence for the existence of god anymore than we do. Society has just taught you that atheists are bad and/or closed minded people, so you are uncomfortable with the label.

It's not like it matters though, cause whether or not you identify with the label, it won't change your belief (unless you're a sheep, in which case you'll conform your opinions to fit with your label).

The Batlord · 12-29-2015, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakuza

c

Don't be a punk.

**Frownland** · 12-29-2015, 07:12 PM

Responding to spammers makes you look like a moron.

That is all.

**Janszoon** · 12-29-2015, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

That still sounds like an agnostic to me.

Im not gonna refute you guys though, what you are saying makes sense. maybe batty is right, i choose to be defined as an agnostic because i don't like being defined as an atheist because that term feels too definitive.

You're still being definitive by picking agnosticism—you're choosing the position that declares the existence of a god as definitely unknowable.

The Batlord · 12-29-2015, 07:28 PM

You can still define yourself as an agnostic. Just know the truth. You are an atheist. Bitch. Eat beans.

12-29-2015, 02:37 PM	#393 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	At The Bat. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

12-29-2015, 07:12 PM	#398 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Responding to spammers makes you look like a moron. That is all. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x