The Batlord

That actually sounds kind of condescending. You don't really believe in her god, but you say you do in a way that sounds nice and inclusive.

__________________

Chula Vista

I believe in her belief. Better?

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

The Batlord

But that statement has no value. The alternative is that you believe that she is lying.

__________________

Chula Vista

It does to both her and me and that's all that counts. She knows I'm an atheist in a real world way. She also knows I 100% respect her belief in her mythological God.

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

The Batlord

But does that require statements like "I believe in her God" or "I believe in her belief"? Why not just say, "I respect your belief" and leave it at that?

__________________

Chula Vista

Fair enough.

We're mincing words at this point.

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

The Batlord

Sometimes I forget you're from California.

__________________

Chula Vista

Always pays to remember.

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

John Wilkes Booth

well you say he's a bigot. I don't think having a harsher view of Islam makes him a bigot, any more than Christopher Hitchens having a harsher view of the Catholic religion than me makes him a bigot.

John Wilkes Booth

ok, let's see..

Religion in Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is it straight up sharia? no. i never said every muslim country has sharia law, or even that most of them do. i just pointed to the country that is literally at the center of the religion, and from which the religion sprang.

as for 'it's cultural,' i hear that talking point repeated so often it's starting to sound like a joke to me. let's say for the sake of argument, that it is cultural. that is a meaningless statement with regards to islam because islam has everything to do with culture and politics. it's that kind of religion where it basically sets itself up as the answer to all problems. it's not just a belief, it's a culture and a way of life into itself.

it was with this understanding that sayyid qutb became convinced that an islamic caliphate was the only way forward, after spending some time in the united states and having been shocked at the perverse nature of american culture. he wasn't the only person who resented the reshaping of american values in the post ww2 generations; there were(and are) plenty of christian fundamentalists who would list largely the same grievances with modernity.

but sayyid thought an islamic caliphate was the only answer and he argued this on the basis of the fact that islam, when 'properly' applied, is an all encompassing ideology. it's not just how to pray and when, it provides guidance in making any decision. so it is a religious, cultural and political system all wrapped into one. and thus we have political islam or 'islamism.'

imo, this isn't a very crazy reading of the quran/hadiths... it gives very specific instructions and was allegedly crafted by a man who ruled a small desert empire. essentially the religion serves as a sort of conquering cultural force throughout its history.

i mean.. if you're just trying to convince me that there are plenty of decent muslims out there, i already know that. i'm not saying all muslims are this or that.

as for terrorists... nah that can't be justified in a straight forward manner by islamic principles, but, being religious extremists and all, they utilize their talents in doing theological gymnastics in order to justify their actions. a lot of people look at that and say oh they're just using the religion as a source of political power but bear in mind that these same men deem it necessary to come up with theological explanations for everything they do, not just for pr's sake cause they're ****ing terrorists lol but for their own conscious. that's how heavily their religion weighs on them.

as for stats.... quick google search brought me here:
Muslim Opinion Polls - Challenging the 'Tiny Minority of Extremists' Myth

yea yea i know biased blah blah but for ****s sake not all of the sources are biased. they have pew polls and ****. the trends just start to stack up.