Reasons you believe God/don't believe God?

The Batlord · 04-22-2015, 05:02 AM

At least until humanity gets over the whole thing.

Guybrush · 04-22-2015, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

but religion comforts people in a way that scientific naturalism can't, atm

imo

That could very well be. I don't really know how comforting it would be. I mostly just see the fear and the judgment.

I definitely take comfort in what you call scientific naturalism, but it's hard for me to tell whether or not I would feel more comforted had I been religious. I actually think I would have felt more conflicted (religion raises a lot of difficult questions), but I'll admit that's speculation.

**Janszoon** · 04-22-2015, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

but religion comforts people in a way that scientific naturalism can't, atm

imo

I've never understood how it comforts anyone since it creates a whole set of artifical problems.

Guybrush · 04-22-2015, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I've never understood how it comforts anyone since it creates a whole set of artifical problems.

I assume the main comfort is the belief that you will go to heaven. Possibly, a feeling that something bigger than us loves you can also be a comfort.

But I agree, the amount of artificial problems religion typically creates is considerable .. like the worry that your loved ones will end up in hell, as described by JWB. Even questioning your religion privately in your mind can become an act of shame and fear. Religion's ability to stir our emotions is certainly one of the most important aspects contributing to its own survival and I think fear is probably more effective than love and comfort when it comes to generating belief and dedication to an idea.

**Janszoon** · 04-22-2015, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I assume the main comfort is the belief that you will go to heaven. Possibly, a feeling that something bigger than us loves you can also be a comfort.

But I agree, the amount of artificial problems religion typically creates is considerable .. like the worry that your loved ones will end up in hell, as described by JWB. Even questioning your religion privately in your mind can become an act of shame and fear. Religion's ability to stir our emotions is certainly one of the most important aspects contributing to its own survival and I think fear is probably more effective than love and comfort when it comes to generating belief and dedication to an idea.

And that's assuming the religion has a notion of a wonderful afterlife or a friendly deity. Not all of them do.

The Batlord · 04-22-2015, 06:50 AM

I think you're both over thinking it. Most people don't care enough to worry too much about all that important, relevant ****. They just get a sense of comfort thinking that the world's in good hands and they get to go to heaven when all's said and done.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 04-22-2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

That could very well be. I don't really know how comforting it would be. I mostly just see the fear and the judgment.

I definitely take comfort in what you call scientific naturalism, but it's hard for me to tell whether or not I would feel more comforted had I been religious. I actually think I would have felt more conflicted (religion raises a lot of difficult questions), but I'll admit that's speculation.

i'm not saying religion is for everyone. it isn't for me, either.

but for example my mom currently believes she'll be going to heaven and seeing everyone dead that she knows, and that she'll see me and my siblings etc after we're all dead again as well, and live in eternal bliss with jesus.

there's nothing i can point to in scientific naturalism that can supplement this. there's no way that i can make a temporary existence that is already mostly spent for her seem like a more desirable scenario. so she's honestly just better off staying christian.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 04-22-2015, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I've never understood how it comforts anyone since it creates a whole set of artifical problems.

you're forgetting that it also creates a whole set of artificial solutions, to every problem, both real and artificial.

Guybrush · 04-22-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

And that's assuming the religion has a notion of a wonderful afterlife or a friendly deity. Not all of them do.

It's so boring with these rewards. There is no god, so of course it can't reward you in any way. Whatever reward you can get from it is up to your capacity for self-delusion.

If there really was a god, shouldn't there be a proper reward in this life? That's one of the things I like about H. P. Lovecraft and his Cthulhu mythos. These awful gods are physically real somewhere, perhaps on the bottom of the ocean, in the center of the earth or out there in the middle of space. If you worship them, they might grant you terrible knowledge or infinite life or perhaps gold from ancient shipwrecks. Sure, you might have to have sex with a monster or something now and then, but it's a trade-off. At least you get some hands-on service, not just made up promises about something after death.

People should demand more from their gods.

Oriphiel · 04-22-2015, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

It's so boring with these rewards. There is no god, so of course it can't reward you in any way. Whatever reward you can get from it is up to your capacity for self-delusion.

If there really was a god, shouldn't there be a proper reward in this life? That's one of the things I like about H. P. Lovecraft and his Cthulhu mythos. These awful gods are physically real somewhere, perhaps on the bottom of the ocean, in the center of the earth or out there in the middle of space. If you worship them, they might grant you terrible knowledge or infinite life or perhaps gold from ancient shipwrecks. Sure, you might have to have sex with a monster or something now and then, but it's a trade-off. At least you get some tentacles-on service, not just made up promises about something after death.

People should demand more from their gods.

Fixed that for ya'.