GMOs

**Frownland** · 05-05-2017, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

We've had this discussion too many times, and my position is still it's our body and our right to choose. Looking forward to reading what other's have to say though.

My body, my choice bitch!

duga · 05-05-2017, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

That's not how we define health^ Vaccines don't make you healthier.

We've had this discussion too many times, and my position is still it's our body and our right to choose. Looking forward to reading what other's have to say though.

They certainly protect your health. And when you make the choice to not vaccinate your child, you are not just making a horrible choice for your family's health but for public health in general. That kid has the potential to be a walking disease bomb.

Typically, I don't care about peoples' poor individual decisions. I will, of course, support policy that mitigates these risks so they CAN'T make poor choices. For example, if you want to waste your money on organic food, go for it...but don't add to the stigma and line Whole Foods' pockets by scaring people with pointless labels. But some people will still prefer organic and that doesn't bother me. Vaccinations affect the people around you. This is not an individual choice - you are endangering children everywhere you bring your unvaccinated child. While I did mention I think criminal prosecution of these parents is extreme, you could almost consider it a criminal act. It's completely negligent.

DwnWthVwls · 05-05-2017, 12:11 PM

The risk to people who get vaccinated is negligible from my understanding. By making the choice to not vaccinate you are accepting the risks involved. I'm not arguing that it isn't negligent, I just don't believe that any person or institution has the right to forcefully do something to a person's body. I am not against vaccinations btw, it just needs to be an option.

Key · 05-05-2017, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

The risk to people who get vaccinated is negligible from my understanding. By making the choice to not vaccinate you are accepting the risks involved. I'm not arguing that it isn't negligent, I just don't believe that any person or institution has the right to forcefully do something to a person's body. I am not against vaccinations btw, it just needs to be an option.

.

in case people are curious about my stance.

**Frownland** · 05-05-2017, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

The risk to people who get vaccinated is negligible from my understanding. By making the choice to not vaccinate you are accepting the risks involved. I'm not arguing that it isn't negligent, I just don't believe that any person or institution has the right to forcefully do something to a person's body. I am not against vaccinations btw, it just needs to be an option.

This puts people who cannot receive vaccinations due to autoimmune disorders (ironically the posterboys/girls of the anti-vax's stance that vaccines are dangerous) at risk of getting the disease. On an abstract level I'm inclined to agree with you on personal freedoms, but in the context of vaccinations it plainly affects other people, which is traditionally where your rights end. That's not to mention that they're making the decision on behalf of their children, who can suffer just because their parents are yuppie morons.

I wonder where you think personal freedom of choice should end? Also do you think that the privilege to choose for yourself should extend to making choices for your child?

duga · 05-05-2017, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

The risk to people who get vaccinated is negligible from my understanding. By making the choice to not vaccinate you are accepting the risks involved. I'm not arguing that it isn't negligent, I just don't believe that any person or institution has the right to forcefully do something to a person's body. I am not against vaccinations btw, it just needs to be an option.

It can be argued that it's negligible for now since we have herd immunity. How did we achieve herd immunity? Vaccinations. The more people that don't vaccinate, the faster herd immunity will dissipate. Then the problem will not be negligible at all.

I also think a lot of people downplay the risk involved. If a child get sick from something that has been for all intents and purposes eradicated, they won't just get sick and get better. There is a high chance they could die. There is a reason we have focused on vaccines for these particular diseases.

I'm as liberal as they come and I firmly believe in having a right to your own body. But for me - on this topic in particular - I've considered the benefit and risk of choice. The risk far outweighs the benefit of personal choice. Vaccinations should be law.

And just to comment on something you said specifically - "By making the choice to not vaccinate you are accepting the risks involved". In essence, you are accepting that there is a risk to OTHER PEOPLE, not just yourself or your kids. Will you also accept responsibility if your child causes the death of another child?

DwnWthVwls · 05-05-2017, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

This puts people who cannot receive vaccinations due to autoimmune disorders (ironically the posterboys/girls of the anti-vax's stance that vaccines are dangerous) at risk of getting the disease. On an abstract level I'm inclined to agree with you on personal freedoms, but in the context of vaccinations it plainly affects other people, which is traditionally where your rights end. That's not to mention that they're making the decision on behalf of their children, who can suffer just because their parents are yuppie morons.

I wonder where you think personal freedom of choice should end? Also do you think that the privilege to choose for yourself should extend to making choices for your child?

I guess I believe that freedom of choice ends when your actions have a significant impact on society or the people around you. I'm not sure there is enough of an impact on society from not vaccinating that it should be mandated. As far as the child thing goes, yes I do believe that. It is the responsibility of the parents to make decisions in their child's best interest. That's the short answer, I'm sure there are things you can think of that make that position sound absurd, and it would certainly be an interesting discussion, but I don't have the time right now to give you a better answer or go into further detail. This is not something I have thought that much about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

It can be argued that it's negligible for now since we have herd immunity. How did we achieve herd immunity? Vaccinations. The more people that don't vaccinate, the faster herd immunity will dissipate. Then the problem will not be negligible at all.

I also think a lot of people downplay the risk involved. If a child get sick from something that has been for all intents and purposes eradicated, they won't just get sick and get better. There is a high chance they could die. There is a reason we have focused on vaccines for these particular diseases.

I'm as liberal as they come and I firmly believe in having a right to your own body. But for me - on this topic in particular - I've considered the benefit and risk of choice. The risk far outweighs the benefit of personal choice. Vaccinations should be law.

And just to comment on something you said specifically - "By making the choice to not vaccinate you are accepting the risks involved". In essence, you are accepting that there is a risk to OTHER PEOPLE, not just yourself or your kids. Will you also accept responsibility if your child causes the death of another child?

Yes, I'd accept that responsibility, but that was not my point. To be more clear, when you make the choice not to get vaccinated you are accepting the risk of being susceptible to whatever illness it is you are not getting an immunization for. I'm not denying any risk, as previously stated, I am for vaccinations, just not by law.

I've went into this topic before with Frown and my biggest concern with making it a law, is that it sets a precedent for future bodily invasion to be performed in the name of protecting society. You can call me paranoid, I don't think I am, I'm not actually concerned with the government going wild and forcing microchips in us and all that conspiracy theory stuff. However, the precedent will be there, and looking at the history of major court rulings in this country, it is possible that it can be abused in the name of homeland security or some such nonsense.

With that said, to be perfectly honest, this is not a topic I have thought all that much about. I take this position because it is consistent with my general line of thinking when it comes to bodily rights. I am open to changing my mind about it, but I'd have to look more into it and really analyze my priorities/values. It's not that you don't make compelling arguments, I'm just not sure I support them in practice.

Edit: There are some other points I'd like to address, I just can't get into right now.

**Frownland** · 05-05-2017, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't agree that organic foods don't have health benefits and I would eat that way if I was a schmuck who cared about his health

That's why I like science: your opinion is worthless unless you've got sources. Do you have any on the health benefits of organic food?

~~Dude111~~ · 06-05-2017, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

On topic: I'm not very knowledgeable about the topic, but from what little I do know I'm against it.

Im glad your against them....... I GET STOMACH PROBLEMS (Aching,etc) hours after I eat most of this garbage!!

GMO sucks!!!!

**Frownland** · 06-05-2017, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude111

Im glad your against them....... I GET STOMACH PROBLEMS (Aching,etc) hours after I eat most of this garbage!!

GMO sucks!!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoneuroimmunology

Based on the crazy wide spectrum that make up GMOs and the lack of scientific evidence demonstrating negative health effects from GMOs, I'm gonna say that its either all in your head or you're just a ****ty cook.