GuD

Dolls are inanimate objects with no concept of existence whatsover. Why even bring that up?

Sex with animals is wrong because they can't consent and even if they did... I mean come on dude. It's like tryna pick up on a really drunk girl too blitzed to know left from blue, you just don't do that ****. You call her a cab and get her a glass of water or you're a piece of ****.

Yep. Pretty much exactly this. It's sick what is done to intelligent, sentient, living beings.



None of those things are fine. Most people just don't give a ****.

I wouldn't ever do it unless I had to but the way I see it if you're gonna eat an animal, have the stones to kill it yourself. Hunting for sport? Sub-human. Industrialized meat-farming is sick but we've all seen the videos and heard the stories. Buying meats locally is a good way to not contribute to that if you're, you know, one of those people- but I find eating meat objectionable simply because it's highly, highly, highly unnecessary. Eating meat is basically just vanity. I like the way it tastes so I'll conveniently not think or pretend to care about it's whereabouts. Only a gigantic pussy would think like that. Rodeos are stupid, The End. Science... it depends on what's being done. I find it very saddening but stuff like cancer research and disease control and all that... kind of important. In the end I do think human lives, for the most part, are more important than "animal's". But that's very, very, very far from any sort of justification for how they are treated in almost all cases.

Zoos can be cool. Some of them are basically wild-life rescues, the animals held in captivity wouldn't survive in the wild because whatever circumstances made it so. Others... not so much. Pretty lame to put a bunch of critters in cages so toddlers and their parents can gawk and then later forget about them.

because they can't consent and because if they could it'd still be just lame and gross.

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I spit bullets in my feet
Every time I speak
So I write instead
And still people want me dead
~msc

The Batlord

You own your dog without her consent. You give her medical care, and possibly invasive procedures that may endanger her life, without her consent. You choose what food she eats. How much she eats. When she goes to the bathroom. Just about every part of your dog's existence is decided without her consent. No matter how benevolent, if you treated a human in the same way you would be a monster. And yet only in the case of sex do you apply human ethics?

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Frownland

Crossing species is pretty gross and we all know that what's gross is not cool. I'll stick my round peg into the trademarked and appropriate hole thank you very much. I remember talking to a goat ****er though, he was from Palestine and his uncle showed him the ropes. Yeah. Goat raping aside the kid was totally normal apart from his accent. I thought it was too creepy how he looked like he he didn't show remorse for it at all but seemed almost proud of it.

Maybe society's taboos are too ingrained in my skull but I see banging different species as one of those fetishes to fulfill by banging people like The Batlord and using their imagination. Or maybe it's objectively wrong and you should stop screwing your poodle.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

John Wilkes Booth

not sure what you mean about globalization. but regardless of how it started it's not a necessity anymore. in fact it's pretty wasteful compared to farming veggies. can't you just admit people have no problem killing cows cause they taste good?

i'm not one of 'those' people, but at least it's an internally consistent position. i'm one of the amoral people who are willing to let animals suffer because i like to eat them and use the other products and advances that we derive from their general exploitation.

i sorta agree with you about pets though. seems useless to me. i hate it when people have exotic pets especially that sit in a cage all day. what a waste of a life. but once again i don't condemn people for it cause i would be a hypocrite if i did.
i think giving rimjobs is nasty. like batlord said... icky != immoral
i bring it up because in making the consent argument there is the presumption that animals have rights. and it seems like if they do have rights they have very strange rights which allow their wholesale exploitation in almost every possible way imaginable.

RoxyRollah

Aint no body asked you for a rimjob!

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John Wilkes Booth

you don't know that.

14232949

I see what you're saying Wilkes Booth. I actually do. Surprisingly it's not something I'd given much thought to before reading through this post.
It's another one of those things people are just going to offer the view of 'no that is wrong' without really questioning why they stand to be so morally objecting.

I see animal testing as a form of torture. No animal is consented to being tested, to being made subject of scientific (and plenty not so 'scientific') experiments. No animal has signed a waiver or receives an incentive for being forced to partake. Is this really any more acceptable than bending a sheep over and shoving your cock on? Surely they've got to be on the same level. Surely nobody would think torture is a lesser crime than rape. Both are horrific obviously, but if we look at the sentencing each crime brings by law, torture is considered more severe in the eyes of the law. So surely, in the rules that uphold how we behave, what is marked as more severe there, surely should apply to our moral ranking of its severity also?

As Batlord said, we breed animals to breed with one another. It's playing God as much as cloning a sheep in a laboratory. We're manipulating the lives of creatures we rear for purpose. The only reason cattle have a life in the first place is to be raised for slaughter. For their meat. Without the demand for meat, these animals would not have life in the first place. It's all well and good saying 'Don't eat meat, spare the animals' but these animals would not exist without being bred for the purpose of being slaughtered.
So I see what JWB is saying. Why is it so much more wrong that you could breed animals for the purpose of shagging them?

You don't really want to create infertile or hybrid offspring, but why would it be so much different to breed animals, wear contraceptive and f*ck them. The only difference is that it's not already happening so as a society we haven't come to accept it. We see it as abnormal because it doesn't happen (at least that we're aware of)
If it did, we'd all be at it. We just say it's morally wrong because that's what society expects us to say, and nobody wants to be looked as the outcast that wants to f*ck animals, through fear of being shunned or worse.

The Batlord

I imagine torture has the same traumatic effect on an animal as it does a person. I don't know that I've ever heard that nonconsensual sex with an animal has the same traumatic effect that it would on a person. So comparing rape to torture in the case of animals may not be relevant.

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John Wilkes Booth

to me the real point is we are willing to inflict said traumatic effect on animals in other ways so even if screwing them has the same effect that isn't an argument for it being wrong unless you are willing to equally condemn all the other ways we inflict that sort of pain on them. and so this requires that you not only be a vegetarian but that you push to ban the practices that are currently hurting animals, or else you should also be willing to let people screw them.

The Batlord

Reasonable, but while the issue of whether or not sex with an animal is actually cruel may not be relevant to your question, in the world of "real life" morality, where it's okay to eat an animal but not to hit one, it still matters.

But yeah, logically, if it's okay to eat an animal, it's irrational to then say you can't **** one, and I don't see much of an argument to say otherwise.

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