Racism vs. Classism

RoxyRollah · 05-03-2014, 10:31 AM

So, this topic seems to come up for me a lot in the last 6 months with various people and I thought I would just throw it out there, and see what comes back.

Personally, I feel like racism is a thing of the past (In the USA.) Now before you jump down my throat and tell me I am psychotic, hear me out.

I feel personally, that honestly no one gives a sh*t about the color of your skin, that is not to say that there are not a few Klansman roaming about, and some Neo-Nazis because for me to say they are not still out there would be just naive. But I am not going to waste my time arguing with the entire state of West Virgina, I am sorry I am just not gonna do it.

I feel like in 2014 the only color that matters to people is green. This is racism 2.0. The haves and the have nots. That is not to say that black people, and other 'minorities' haven't been pushed into ghettos throughout history. Because they have but that just throws them into the category of the have nots. And that is not a skin color issue, it's a wealth issue.Given the choice between a nice 5 bed room home in suburbia and the 2 bedrooom slum in the projects there isn't a person I know that would say I'll take this sh*t box thank you! The issue is not having the means to make it out. Money talks and bullsh*t walks, and if you have the money to buy that nice 5 bedroom dream house in the burbs there isn't anything about your race, or creed that could possibly bar you from getting in.

That being said, I ask myself why, 'my people', black people (I am just light skinned ppl don't get it twisted it's all sistah all day behind these green eyes.) get riled up over the 1950's playbook that our grandparents had handed to them. Not a black person under 60 knows what it was like to be beaten in the streets, hit with fire hoses, have dogs sicked on them, or lynched. And there most certainly isn't a black person living or dead that I know that knows what it is like to be kidnapped from their home and chained ass to ankle in a cargo ships and made to pick cotton, and serve the white man. I ask myself why we as a culture are so blinded to the fact this happened to our grandparents, and great great grandparents. That war is over, our great great grandparents,and grandparents paved that road, with blood, sweat and tears so that we as a culture can have what we have today. But I wonder exactly who will pave the road for my children, and their children to be considered equal in monetary fashion. Meaning, better education, better job opportunities, which leads to more cash in the back pocket which will take them right to that 5 bed room home if that's what they desire. Because no one, no matter the color should be looked at as less than because of what they have.

Ok I am done!

But honestly I want feedback if you got it.

Black Francis · 05-03-2014, 12:32 PM

*Relevant to the topic*

I agree with you a Roxy i see racism as a thing of the past, racist ppl aren't the majority anymore, they've become the ignorant minority now that haven't adapted to the times.

Classicism will always exist though, it can't be helped, our social status does reflect alot the kind of life we are gonna have, with effort we can move up this social scale but it takes hard work and you have to take the white jobs the same rich white man used to get rich. either that or become an entertainer.

Still, the center of the world is not only the US there are other countries with unapologetic racist or sexist laws that got females looking like ninjas cause showing a little leg or cleavage is for sluts.

Will these countries ever catch up with the US?
Are they wrong for doing things differently?

I can't never answer this questions without being biased, there is a thin line in trying to help ppl and telling them how they should live.

GuD · 05-03-2014, 08:20 PM

As a white guy I always feel really uncomfortable making statements on behalf of 'other' people but I have to disagree (kinda) with you.

Racial profiling is still an issue. Interracial couples deal with pressure from parents and in society. You still get racist ass **** in popular culture like in that Transformers movie. I hated it so I don't remember the character's names or what part of the series it was but there was some seriously racist ass **** in at least one of them.

I totally agree with you that classism is a more prominent issue but I think that's just because it can and does affect anyone of any background. But racism still exists, it's just changed shape. I think we're on the right path, though. Attitudes and the things I used as examples are heavily scrutinized but they're still there.

djchameleon · 05-04-2014, 06:20 AM

You already know my stance on this Roxy since we have gone back and forth on this already but I highly disagree with you. The two issues go hand in hand but it's nice that you are able to just dismiss racism like it doesn't exist anymore. The fight of your parents and grandparents only helpled in certain ways but the system is still in place and currently discriminates against minorities whether you want to believe it or not.

Yes, money is powerful but not powerful enough to elevate someone past their racist ideals. Rich minorities are still go through prejudgice issues. They get pulled over just for being black.

You can't just throw your head in the sand saying 'la la la" Racism is in the past and it doesn't exist when it clearly does. It just isn't up front and in your face in the press as much as it used to be but it's clearly still around.

I always say that I rather someone speak up and let me know they are racist so I know where they are coming from instead of the people that end up being prejudiced against me while pretending they aren't racist. The sneaky racists.

I don't even know why you would still hold onto this argument in light of recent events in the press with Donald Sterling. Sure, he's an old white man so he's still holding onto resentment from his heydays but age doesn't excuse that there are plenty of other people that feel the same way about different minority groups.

The Dream released this song and I thought it was nice until the end when he uses the same tag line about classicism being the new racism which I think is bull****. Any talk of us being in a post-racial society is straight up ignorant imo.

Classicism is a big issue in this day and age but it goes hand in hand with the systematic racism that is placed on a large majority of people to create a ceiling where they can't get past.

RoxyRollah · 05-04-2014, 06:34 AM

Dude. Read what I wrote. I never said that it doesn't exsisit.
I said I'm not going to argue with the klansmen in West Virginia.
See your mentality, is my issue .
But as I know what you think I skipped your post, I am not gonna blow the thread arguing with you.
Honestly you and I dissagree, great.
Don't get mad if I skip ya brother because its not gonna go anywhere you and me talking.
Aside from my blood pressure going sky high.

djchameleon · 05-04-2014, 06:48 AM

You are definitely on some Pharrell **** with "New Black".

Changing a person's mentality isn't going to just end up ignoring their reality and what they have to go through on a day to day basis.

It just makes you seem disconnected from reality but yeah that's fine. I don't want you to respond to my posts in this thread because we have already had this discussion and I know where you stand and you obviously know where I stand.

If you haven't heard the Oprah interview with Pharrell this is what he said.

Quote:

The 'New Black' doesn't blame other races for our issues," Pharrell began. "The New Black dreams and realizes that it's not a pigmentation; it's a mentality. And it's either going to work for your, or it's going to work against you. And you've got to pick the side you're gonna be on."

You can go on pretending that racism is just an issue in little backwater towns when it's not. It's not the reality that people have to live with day to day.

*officers pulls you over*

You: Oh sorry officer, I'm the New Black. Not like those others. My mentality has changed.

Paedantic Basterd · 05-04-2014, 08:09 AM

They're definitely both still active, however racism has become a form of modern prejudice, wherein prejudiced attitudes exist, but are not spoken or openly endorsed--at times are not even known by those who hold them.

This is an improvement; social norms now rule that racism is not cool, and people will go to great lengths to adhere to them, however, there are still as many studies that pop up which indicate a black man is more likely to be shot while holding a cellphone than a white man is, or that a first nations/native american child is more likely to be put into remedial school programs.

As for classism, it is inherently tied to racism. Our history of oppressing immigrants (voluntary or otherwise) has placed them at the bottom of the monetary hierarchy, and prejudice has been seen to help keep them there; it is without doubt more difficult for someone who is not white to get a job to earn the money to go to the school to get the qualifications to be hired for the well-paid job--and that itself is an oversimplification.

I am of course not denying that classism is a rampant, if not definitive problem for our time, but it's inseparable from other prejudices, and those other kinds of bias have by no means vanished.

As for people being angry about historical crimes, I understand it. I understand, because the oppression isn't gone. It's changed and it's lessened, but people are still disadvantaged by the colour of their skin, resulting from those historical crimes against humanity, and the rest of us are still implicitly impacted by them.

Prejudice truly is as easy as another's comment triggering a stereotype--that you don't even endorse. We are all with prejudices, however hard we each work to control them, and acknowledging that we are is the most important step in defeating them.

Xurtio · 05-05-2014, 09:41 AM

I disagree that "racism is a thing of the past" in the USA. Police and TSA still racially profile blacks and middle-easterners, respectively. That's essentially state-sanctioned racism. You have people in positions of authority setting an example (and don't forget about the whole deep south, where kids are still being raised racist). My wife's parents are racist. There's still plenty of explicitly racist supremacy groups exercising their right to free speech in the US.

That's not to undermine class discrimination. A rich black man can get a lot more done politically than a poor white man could. But a rich black man still has nothing on a rich white man (all else being equal).

Black Francis · 05-05-2014, 01:22 PM

Racism will probably always exist but i think Roxy was stating most ppl now don't have a racist mindset unless they haven't catched up to our modern times.

i mean some wiggas call each other 'nigga' emulating everything they can from a black man, i think that's a pretty clear sign racism is not as bad as it used to be.

Carpe Mortem · 05-05-2014, 04:45 PM

I feel oppressed by those of african descent because they made my jewish ancestors build the pyramids then took all the credit for it.

Where's my ****in reparations?

05-03-2014, 12:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	Relevant to the topic I agree with you a Roxy i see racism as a thing of the past, racist ppl aren't the majority anymore, they've become the ignorant minority now that haven't adapted to the times. Classicism will always exist though, it can't be helped, our social status does reflect alot the kind of life we are gonna have, with effort we can move up this social scale but it takes hard work and you have to take the white jobs the same rich white man used to get rich. either that or become an entertainer. Still, the center of the world is not only the US there are other countries with unapologetic racist or sexist laws that got females looking like ninjas cause showing a little leg or cleavage is for sluts. Will these countries ever catch up with the US? Are they wrong for doing things differently? I can't never answer this questions without being biased, there is a thin line in trying to help ppl and telling them how they should live. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A

05-03-2014, 08:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
GuD Dude... What? Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,322	As a white guy I always feel really uncomfortable making statements on behalf of 'other' people but I have to disagree (kinda) with you. Racial profiling is still an issue. Interracial couples deal with pressure from parents and in society. You still get racist ass ** in popular culture like in that Transformers movie. I hated it so I don't remember the character's names or what part of the series it was but there was some seriously racist ass ** in at least one of them. I totally agree with you that classism is a more prominent issue but I think that's just because it can and does affect anyone of any background. But racism still exists, it's just changed shape. I think we're on the right path, though. Attitudes and the things I used as examples are heavily scrutinized but they're still there. __________________ I spit bullets in my feet Every time I speak So I write instead And still people want me dead ~msc

05-05-2014, 09:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
Xurtio Brain Licker Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,083	I disagree that "racism is a thing of the past" in the USA. Police and TSA still racially profile blacks and middle-easterners, respectively. That's essentially state-sanctioned racism. You have people in positions of authority setting an example (and don't forget about the whole deep south, where kids are still being raised racist). My wife's parents are racist. There's still plenty of explicitly racist supremacy groups exercising their right to free speech in the US. That's not to undermine class discrimination. A rich black man can get a lot more done politically than a poor white man could. But a rich black man still has nothing on a rich white man (all else being equal). __________________ H̓̇̅̉yͤ͏mͬ͂ͧn͑̽̽̌ͪ̑͐͟o̴͊̈́͑̇m͛͌̓ͦ̑aͫ̽ͤ̇n̅̎͐̒ͫ͐c̆ͯͫ̋ ̔̃́eͯ͒rͬͬ̄҉

05-05-2014, 01:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	Racism will probably always exist but i think Roxy was stating most ppl now don't have a racist mindset unless they haven't catched up to our modern times. i mean some wiggas call each other 'nigga' emulating everything they can from a black man, i think that's a pretty clear sign racism is not as bad as it used to be. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A

05-05-2014, 04:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
Carpe Mortem Crusher of tiny Nords Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ugly Bag of Mostly Water Posts: 1,363	I feel oppressed by those of african descent because they made my jewish ancestors build the pyramids then took all the credit for it. Where's my **in reparations? __________________ [SIG][/SIG] Mirth is King** Be Loving & Open With My Emotions

05-04-2014, 08:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	They're definitely both still active, however racism has become a form of modern prejudice, wherein prejudiced attitudes exist, but are not spoken or openly endorsed--at times are not even known by those who hold them. This is an improvement; social norms now rule that racism is not cool, and people will go to great lengths to adhere to them, however, there are still as many studies that pop up which indicate a black man is more likely to be shot while holding a cellphone than a white man is, or that a first nations/native american child is more likely to be put into remedial school programs. As for classism, it is inherently tied to racism. Our history of oppressing immigrants (voluntary or otherwise) has placed them at the bottom of the monetary hierarchy, and prejudice has been seen to help keep them there; it is without doubt more difficult for someone who is not white to get a job to earn the money to go to the school to get the qualifications to be hired for the well-paid job--and that itself is an oversimplification. I am of course not denying that classism is a rampant, if not definitive problem for our time, but it's inseparable from other prejudices, and those other kinds of bias have by no means vanished. As for people being angry about historical crimes, I understand it. I understand, because the oppression isn't gone. It's changed and it's lessened, but people are still disadvantaged by the colour of their skin, resulting from those historical crimes against humanity, and the rest of us are still implicitly impacted by them. Prejudice truly is as easy as another's comment triggering a stereotype--that you don't even endorse. We are all with prejudices, however hard we each work to control them, and acknowledging that we are is the most important step in defeating them.