How Privileged Are You?

Xurtio · 05-18-2014, 07:32 PM

I agree that white/male/hetero privilege exists, but I don't agree with this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege or heterosexual privilege.

This is bordering on conspiracy theory... it's not about carefully teaching, it's just ignorance and familiarity. People are most comfortable with people that are most like them and in North America, most people are white heterosexuals: this is the whole point behind the word minority; the interests of minority are underrepresented because there's less people like them around recognizing their struggles.

Male privilege has been sanctioned by religious texts (including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) and even law (still is legal to beat your wife for not being modest in some middle eastern countries) so it's a more complicated subject.

Sparky · 05-18-2014, 08:22 PM

one thing i've learned is life itself is pretty subjective guys, its crazy

~~Soulflower~~ · 05-19-2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

I agree that white/male/hetero privilege exists, but I don't agree with this:

This is bordering on conspiracy theory... it's not about carefully teaching, it's just ignorance and familiarity. People are most comfortable with people that are most like them and in North America, most people are white heterosexuals: this is the whole point behind the word minority; the interests of minority are underrepresented because there's less people like them around recognizing their struggles.

Male privilege has been sanctioned by religious texts (including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) and even law (still is legal to beat your wife for not being modest in some middle eastern countries) so it's a more complicated subject.

If we live in a Western idealized society (European) why would that be to far fetch?

We are taught these things through subliminal messages in media and in our everyday language.

I do agree with your other perspectives though

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 05-19-2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

I am acknowledging it both ways but some things is just what it is.

White people are born with privilege simply because they are white. That is not going to change regardless of how much money they have. Black people and other minorities are always going to have to prove themselves and work harder to prove themselves regardless of how much money they have.

thats something i can totalyl disagree with. ive harped on this facet long enough but you just keep taking these macro statistics and try to apply them at individual levels which makes no sense.

ok so economically, blacks are poorer than whites. i believe thats factual if u look at statistics nationally. but on individual levels, a black guy who grew up with rich parents in the suburbs doesnt have to work harder or 'prove himself' more than some white trailer park kid in some backwoods redneck town. you have an illusion of the world where blacks are all impoverished or something and whites just get things handed to them which is so grossly wrong.

i will tell you one way that racism breeds itself. it comes from these small rural, backwoods towns thru the heartland of america, full of trailer parks, tweakers, etc. those ppl never become educated, for one. but more importantly they equate themselves with the poor minorities across the country and they see minorities gettin all these benfits just for bein black. free college housing, affirmative action, etc. i totally understand why some ppl are racist and im not defendin it, but i just understand how that mindset develops

so anyways, a black guy might have to deal with instances of racism. maybe he gets in an argument, someone calls him the N word. maybe someone assumes something stereotypical of him. etc. i feel like you are takin these relatively small things and makin them seem way more oppressive than they actually are. you make it sound like employers have some bias against hiring blacks when in fact, its the OPPOSITE. theres literally government regulations in place in some industries to promote the hiring of minorities. black suburban guy has it way better than trailer park tommy and i find it slightly offensive you cant seem to grasp that because you cant wrap your head around poor white ppl existing. i hate when ppl have to stop a generalization to point out some anomaly or rare exception but thats not what im doing, theres literally ghettos of white ppl all across the country. its not some weird isolated anecdote of mine

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

Are you honestly calling me prejudice because I am acknowledging a well established and researched concept?

I notice alot of posters on this board are uneducated when it comes to "racism" and privilege and it is irritating because its ignorant and prejudice.

YES, I am calling it ignorant because it is.

Most people who are taught abut racism are only taught the overt expressions of it and not the "invisible" systems conferring to the dominance group, "white people"

I am not trying to speak for a white person but from what I have observed in real life as well as on this board in particularly, white people have been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage but are OBLIVIOUS of its corollary aspects, white privilege, which puts THEM at an advantage.

I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege or heterosexual privilege.

White privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that white people can count on cashing in everyday but remain oblivious to it.

Some white people will get it and some unfortunately won't but the fact still remains they are the oppressors even when they don't see themselves that way because of their skin privilege and they have been condition to be UNEDUCATED of it's existence which is sad.

I just finished taking a class about this that was taught by a WHITE TEACHER who even insisted that her skin color affords her more opportunities BECAUSE she is white. So I don't get your generic excuse that "I am prejudice" just because I am acknowledging a WELL ESTABLISHED concept that is researched and has been proven as an INVISIBLE social concept in our culture. I know people of all races and backgrounds INCLUDING WHITE people who also acknowledge the existence of white privilege.

It is ignorant and racist to act like it does not "exist"

its my belief that white priv exists but is just incredibly exagerated to the point of absurdity. nobody can deny racism exists but its hard to take ppl serious when they say that race relations havent made much progress or how some ppl will say that its worse now than 50 yrs ago. how can i take those ppl seriously?? again this is all just mindful exageration for the sake of craving the need to be victims. its not just feminists, its a human condition to want to be a victim. it gives you smypathy, a certain level of pity and more importantly especialyl with the internet it gives u the illusion that your words hold more weight than joe shmoe cause youre 'oppressed' and 'victimized by 'the system'

ive been thru higher education (surprise surprise). ive taken the classes youve taken then i took about 10X more of em. i understand what those classes, research, stats, professors, are saying. yes, i dont have to deal with as much **** bein a white, straight, male. which ive acknowledged before, (with my point being that the oppression of non whites, homos, minorities, etc are exagerated.)

ok.... sooo.... when is it enough for u ppl?? like whats the next step here? most ppl acknowledge it, but whats the end game? to make ppl like me feel guilty about who i am and about the things i cant change?? is this how ppl like u discredit the hard work ive put in over the last, oh i dont know, decade or so?? thats what its always sounded like to me. its not a conscious choice by ppl like you, but i see right thru your disguises. this whole stupid priv thing is just your subtle reminder to ppl like me that i didnt work hard for the things i have and that i somehow didnt 'earn' where im at in life. so i take those ideas and reject them by takin a fat dump all over them each and every time.

im one of the most grateful and appreciative ppl. i see the big picture. i have a good perspective. im not too far deep into the forrest to see the trees. whats enough for u ppl?? i dont feel bad, guilty, ashamed, etc about anythin about myself. ive worked hard for the things ive earned and you ppl who continuously birng up priv and yada yada yada are only justifyin your own failures to urself. "i didnt succeed in this aspect of life cause i never had a chance cause im black/gay/trans/whatever'. dont you understand how positive my messages of anti self-loathing are? dont you see how i try to encourage others to not feel self-pity? or how i am always tellin ppl they arent victims and theres no time to feel sorry for yourself. those ppl never attain the glory im constantly after.

Carpe Mortem · 05-19-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky

one thing i've learned is life itself is pretty subjective guys, its crazy

Amen dude, especially with so many different countries of varying ethnic majority!

Christ, I can't believe you people are talking about it so much. Grow some balls and debate something relevant, like whether or not the newest cold fusion potentials will ever become a mainstream source of energy.

Protip... they won't, it would topple far too many industry giants. But its nice to dream that we all wanna make the world a better place.

Xurtio · 05-20-2014, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

If we live in a Western idealized society (European) why would that be to far fetch?

We are taught these things through subliminal messages in media and in our everyday language.

Maybe it's just semantics. I thought you were implying there was lesson plan for how to raise your kid racist and sexist or something, mostly because of the word "carefully". I mean, do you actually think people are intentionally planting subliminal messages in the media?

Neapolitan · 05-20-2014, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

thats something i can totalyl disagree with. ive harped on this facet long enough but you just keep taking these macro statistics and try to apply them at individual levels which makes no sense.

ok so economically, blacks are poorer than whites. i believe thats factual if u look at statistics nationally. but on individual levels, a black guy who grew up with rich parents in the suburbs doesnt have to work harder or 'prove himself' more than some white trailer park kid in some backwoods redneck town. you have an illusion of the world where blacks are all impoverished or something and whites just get things handed to them which is so grossly wrong.

i will tell you one way that racism breeds itself. it comes from these small rural, backwoods towns thru the heartland of america, full of trailer parks, tweakers, etc. those ppl never become educated, for one. but more importantly they equate themselves with the poor minorities across the country and they see minorities gettin all these benfits just for bein black. free college housing, affirmative action, etc. i totally understand why some ppl are racist and im not defendin it, but i just understand how that mindset develops

so anyways, a black guy might have to deal with instances of racism. maybe he gets in an argument, someone calls him the N word. maybe someone assumes something stereotypical of him. etc. i feel like you are takin these relatively small things and makin them seem way more oppressive than they actually are. you make it sound like employers have some bias against hiring blacks when in fact, its the OPPOSITE. theres literally government regulations in place in some industries to promote the hiring of minorities. black suburban guy has it way better than trailer park tommy and i find it slightly offensive you cant seem to grasp that because you cant wrap your head around poor white ppl existing. i hate when ppl have to stop a generalization to point out some anomaly or rare exception but thats not what im doing, theres literally ghettos of white ppl all across the country. its not some weird isolated anecdote of mine

its my belief that white priv exists but is just incredibly exagerated to the point of absurdity. nobody can deny racism exists but its hard to take ppl serious when they say that race relations havent made much progress or how some ppl will say that its worse now than 50 yrs ago. how can i take those ppl seriously?? again this is all just mindful exageration for the sake of craving the need to be victims. its not just feminists, its a human condition to want to be a victim. it gives you smypathy, a certain level of pity and more importantly especialyl with the internet it gives u the illusion that your words hold more weight than joe shmoe cause youre 'oppressed' and 'victimized by 'the system'

ive been thru higher education (surprise surprise). ive taken the classes youve taken then i took about 10X more of em. i understand what those classes, research, stats, professors, are saying. yes, i dont have to deal with as much **** bein a white, straight, male. which ive acknowledged before, (with my point being that the oppression of non whites, homos, minorities, etc are exagerated.)

ok.... sooo.... when is it enough for u ppl?? like whats the next step here? most ppl acknowledge it, but whats the end game? to make ppl like me feel guilty about who i am and about the things i cant change?? is this how ppl like u discredit the hard work ive put in over the last, oh i dont know, decade or so?? thats what its always sounded like to me. its not a conscious choice by ppl like you, but i see right thru your disguises. this whole stupid priv thing is just your subtle reminder to ppl like me that i didnt work hard for the things i have and that i somehow didnt 'earn' where im at in life. so i take those ideas and reject them by takin a fat dump all over them each and every time.

I think you are partly right and partly wrong. You are right when you said: "incredibly exagerated to the point of absurdity." On the other-hand I think you are missing the point and don't see what is being done here. There are certain people in the world who want the whole white race to be "priv" to justify their own prejudice, hatred, mockery, etc etc. It is really insulting because there are poor who get labeled "priv" and I guess this is done so you can mock and tease them and have no respect for them as human beings, and dismiss any hardships they have. Do you see anyone shocked for seeing or hearing "white trash" or "red-necks"? There is almost a sanctioned bigotry against poor whites. I guess people who use those words don't see how privileged they are for being able to say that against whites without being judged as insensitive or prejudice for using them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by butthead aka 216

im one of the most grateful and appreciative ppl. i see the big picture. i have a good perspective. im not too far deep into the forrest to see the trees. whats enough for u ppl?? i dont feel bad, guilty, ashamed, etc about anythin about myself. ive worked hard for the things ive earned and you ppl who continuously birng up priv and yada yada yada are only justifyin your own failures to urself. "i didnt succeed in this aspect of life cause i never had a chance cause im black/gay/trans/whatever'. dont you understand how positive my messages of anti self-loathing are? dont you see how i try to encourage others to not feel self-pity? or how i am always tellin ppl they arent victims and theres no time to feel sorry for yourself. those ppl never attain the glory im constantly after.

I see it in a slightly different light. I grew up personally seeing no one with privileges or having it easy and what I saw is each person had their own hardships. I also notice some hardships garner much sympathy while others none. I think in a way you have to give everyone respect because you don't know what troubles they are going through. (“Be kind to people and don’t judge, for you do not know what demons they carry and what battles they are fighting.”― Vashti Quiroz-Vega) I think you have to destroy the propaganda that is taught you and figure the world for yourself otherwise you subjugate to nonsense that will make you bitter, and won't be able to grow and mature as a person.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 05-20-2014, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I think you are partly right and partly wrong. You are right when you said: "incredibly exagerated to the point of absurdity." On the other-hand I think you are missing the point and don't see what is being done here. There are certain people in the world who want the whole white race to be "priv" to justify their own prejudice, hatred, mockery, etc etc. It is really insulting because there are poor who get labeled "priv" and I guess this is done so you can mock and tease them and have no respect for them as human beings, and dismiss any hardships they have. Do you see anyone shocked for seeing or hearing "white trash" or "red-necks"? There is almost a sanctioned bigotry against poor whites. I guess people who use those words don't see how privileged they are for being able to say that against whites without being judged as insensitive or prejudice for using them.

I see it in a slightly different light. I grew up personally seeing no one with privileges or having it easy and what I saw is each person had their own hardships. I also notice some hardships garner much sympathy while others none. I think in a way you have to give everyone respect because you don't know what troubles they are going through. (“Be kind to people and don’t judge, for you do not know what demons they carry and what battles they are fighting.”― Vashti Quiroz-Vega) I think you have to destroy the propaganda that is taught you and figure the world for yourself otherwise you subjugate to nonsense that will make you bitter, and won't be able to grow and mature as a person.

im a little confused by the first paragraph of ur response. i feel like im agreeing with u and ur saying im not or something. part of what i said is that the poor whites are like the most forgotten demographic. cause these ppl who talk about priv live in a bubbe and cant fathom the millions of impoverished whites in this country. if they did then it would take away from their own oppression which has become so crucial to their livelihood.

and im nor sure if you are callin me out for using those terms but i just have no problem saying it. i grew up in a redneck town. ppl call themselves rednecks. i dont consider it to be a big deal

djchameleon · 05-20-2014, 01:30 AM

I don't know why I'm going to even bother trying to explain this to you butthead but white privilege isn't just about economic status.

Yes, there are rich black and brown folks, but even they are subject to racial profiling and stereotyping (especially because those who encounter them often don't know they're rich and so view them as decidedly not), as well as bias in mortgage lending, and unequal treatment in schools. So, for instance, even the children of well-off black families are more likely to be suspended or expelled from school than the children of poor whites.

Even though poor whites, are suffering economically, this doesn't mean they lack racial privilege. Whites have the luxury of not having to worry that their race is going to mark against them negatively when looking for work, going to school, shopping, looking for a place to live, or driving for that matter: things that other minorities can't take for granted.

White privilege doesn't mean that you will have everything handed to you in life or win every competition just based off of your skin color. Sure you still have to work for things but there are general advantages and that's fine if you choose to ignore them.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 05-20-2014, 01:45 AM

i know its not all about economic status but thats one thing we are discussing here and i think that if we're talkin bout priv or whatever, the biggest factor in determining that is economic status, much like that post roxy made a few weeks ago.

and i dont deny that a rich black guy faces more racism than a rich white guy, but there is absolutely a difference in how a rich black guy and a poor black guy are treated. like ive told you on here countless times, no old lady is clutching her purse when a black guy in a suit walks into the unimart.

some employers, banks, etc etc are gonna be racist although its a very small amount. which in my opinion is why things like affirmative action exists. u know giving blacks stuff for... being black. its a reparations system a lot of times

my beef with ppl like you is that you make such a huge deal over all this 'racial priv' and then even the examples dont live up to what you make it out to be. suspended from school, pulled over on the highway... yeah that sucks, its not fair, is it worthy of this huge uproar all the tiem?? guess we have different opinions on that. like i will always say, i know how ppl like you are and i see what u try to do on here whether its part trolling or not. just cause your life isnt where you wished it would be or thought itd be when you invision the future 10 yrs ago doesnt give u the right to discredit others who have likely worked way harder than you in the first place, regardless of race. i wont let ppl like u make me feel bad or guilty cause i paid my dues. sorry if thats a lil harsh

05-18-2014, 08:22 PM	#112 (permalink)
Sparky not really Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,223	one thing i've learned is life itself is pretty subjective guys, its crazy

05-20-2014, 01:45 AM	#120 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	i know its not all about economic status but thats one thing we are discussing here and i think that if we're talkin bout priv or whatever, the biggest factor in determining that is economic status, much like that post roxy made a few weeks ago. and i dont deny that a rich black guy faces more racism than a rich white guy, but there is absolutely a difference in how a rich black guy and a poor black guy are treated. like ive told you on here countless times, no old lady is clutching her purse when a black guy in a suit walks into the unimart. some employers, banks, etc etc are gonna be racist although its a very small amount. which in my opinion is why things like affirmative action exists. u know giving blacks stuff for... being black. its a reparations system a lot of times my beef with ppl like you is that you make such a huge deal over all this 'racial priv' and then even the examples dont live up to what you make it out to be. suspended from school, pulled over on the highway... yeah that sucks, its not fair, is it worthy of this huge uproar all the tiem?? guess we have different opinions on that. like i will always say, i know how ppl like you are and i see what u try to do on here whether its part trolling or not. just cause your life isnt where you wished it would be or thought itd be when you invision the future 10 yrs ago doesnt give u the right to discredit others who have likely worked way harder than you in the first place, regardless of race. i wont let ppl like u make me feel bad or guilty cause i paid my dues. sorry if thats a lil harsh