What state is the health service in where you are?

Trollheart · 03-28-2014, 06:34 AM

And don't say "Wisconsin" or something! I mean, how good or bad is it?

Those who have been following my moans on the intros to the Journal Update Thread will know that I've had my pops at the Irish health system, and damn it deserves it! If you go to A&E and DON'T have a referral letter from a GP or a Medical Card (card issued by the State to various people with long-term illnesses that allows them to get medical services and pharms free) they charge you 100 Euro for your visit before you're even seen! The sign above reception says "Have your preferred method of payment with you as you approach!"

So after paying for the privilege of getting to sit on a hard seat in the waiting room you can expect to be there for anything from 6 - 24 hours plus. Then if you want a bed you may be waiting another bunch of hours. If you want to go home (assuming you didn't need a bed and they discharged you) and like my sis need an ambulance to get you there, you can expect another 1 - 10 hours wait, and they can't say how long it will be.

A report released yesterday revealed that only 1 in 3 people who phone with life-threatening emergencies are being seen to in the requisite time (ambulance should be there in eight minutes); someone's going to die, sooner or later, waiting on an ambulance.

Now I should point out I don't blame the crews: they work all hours and they're great at what they do. This is all down to budget cuts in the health system, while the CEOs continue to award themselves huge bonuses for basically doing nothing. Same with the nurses and doctors. The ground level staff are all great but the top men make me sick.

So, what's it like where you are? Better? Worse? Does what I say about Ireland shock you, or should I be grateful I don't live where you are? Is this normal? Exceptional?

RoxyRollah · 03-28-2014, 06:40 AM

Totally normal here...They stop for Chinese on their way to get you. You'd have better luck walking here.

Pet_Sounds · 03-28-2014, 07:06 AM

Canada is pretty good, but in Ontario, surgery is tough to get, as they don't allow private practices. I knew a guy who had a herniated disc in his back, and the waiting list was something like two years! He ended up flying to B.C. to get it done privately.

The Batlord · 03-28-2014, 11:40 AM

So there actually is some truth to the doomsday predictions by conservative types in the US about state run healthcare?

Trollheart · 03-28-2014, 03:41 PM

Well if you can afford private care you'll be ok, but a single bed in a hospital ward costs about 3000 Euro a night! So you'd want to be damn well insured!

And that's another thing: private health insurance here is going through the roof. Mine is just short of 100 Euro a month, so that's what, over a thousand a year? They're trying to get universal health insurance for everyone, but as usual the govt, who came to power on many promises they have failed to keep, are dragging their feet on this one too. Many people are finding it hard to make ends meet and with the choice being between their health insurance and food, they're cancelling their insurance. I'm afraid to, as with my luck as soon as I do I'll find I suddenly need it.

Bloody country!

Pet_Sounds · 03-28-2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Well if you can afford private care you'll be ok, but a single bed in a hospital ward costs about 3000 Euro a night! So you'd want to be damn well insured!

And that's another thing: private health insurance here is going through the roof. Mine is just short of 100 Euro a month, so that's what, over a thousand a year? They're trying to get universal health insurance for everyone, but as usual the govt, who came to power on many promises they have failed to keep, are dragging their feet on this one too. Many people are finding it hard to make ends meet and with the choice being between their health insurance and food, they're cancelling their insurance. I'm afraid to, as with my luck as soon as I do I'll find I suddenly need it.

Bloody country!

Come to Canada! We'll take you gladly!

djchameleon · 03-28-2014, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

So there actually is some truth to the doomsday predictions by conservative types in the US about state run healthcare?

What really happened is that ACA was written up and conservatives didn't like it so they wouldn't pass it until provisions were in it to protect insurance companies. Now that it pass they are just pointing their fingers at Obama and the democrats saying see see it doesn't work and people have to leave their current junk policies and get something that's more expensive.

There was supposed to be a public option to combat the insurance companies and be competitive because the insurance companies decided this was a great time to raise their rates.

The conservatives decided to have that taken out so that the people would turn against ACA.

A similar system worked very well in Mass. but it's not working on a national level because they ended up tweaking the stupid bill so much just to get it passed.

Freebase Dali · 04-02-2014, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

What really happened is that ACA was written up and conservatives didn't like it so they wouldn't pass it until provisions were in it to protect insurance companies. Now that it pass they are just pointing their fingers at Obama and the democrats saying see see it doesn't work and people have to leave their current junk policies and get something that's more expensive.

There was supposed to be a public option to combat the insurance companies and be competitive because the insurance companies decided this was a great time to raise their rates.

The conservatives decided to have that taken out so that the people would turn against ACA.

A similar system worked very well in Mass. but it's not working on a national level because they ended up tweaking the stupid bill so much just to get it passed.

What are you even talking about? The ACA being signed into law had nothing to do with Republicans/Conservatives not passing it. The Republican-controlled House was working on their own version of the ACA but had previously sent a completely unrelated tax bill (H.R. 3590) to the Democratically controlled Senate, and that Senate completely stripped the wording out of it and replaced it with what we now know as the ACA in its place in order to get it passed in the Senate legally as a tax bill, because revenue-related bills can only originate from the House. (Which is why the supreme court was able to call the individual mandate a tax, and not a penalty. Had the Senate not replaced the content of a tax bill with the ACA content, we wouldn't have ACA right now)

Sneaky? Hell yea. But apparently it was legal.

When the House sent over a completely unrelated bill to the Senate, they weren't expecting the Senate to turn that into the ACA and effectively nullify the entire point of checks and balances in government. They should have expected it, but Republicans are retarded a lot of the time. Democrats knew that, and holding a majority in the Senate, Democrats knew they could get their free tax bill called ACA to the president's desk with no real opposition at all.

So, yea, I think it's reasonable to be a little opposed to having a tax bill leave your jurisdiction and be hijacked, only to have your minority members in the Senate completely unable to do anything about it.

As far as the not working thing, that remains to be seen. I'm sure most of us want it to work out, but if we're going to substitute wishful thinking for fact, then that's probably not going to go over well. So, hey, if the sh*t goes downhill, I'm not going to put blinders on and pretend sh*t is great. The right is probably jumping the gun on a lot of things, but I see the left doing the same damn thing.

Irrelevant of all the above, though, there is one simple fact that people should know: If you subsidize a public service, you'll need to take more taxes. And in relation to ANY insurance, if you reduce the amount of money insurance companies get from otherwise healthy people, there is simply not enough money for those companies to cover the sick. This is how insurance works. And that's why you see sky-high premiums in a privatized system when more people are subsidized by tax dollars in a government-run insurance program. But on the same token, if people aren't getting private health insurance, the same thing happens. At least people will be forced to choose between public or private, and maybe a greater number will choose private and drive down the private premiums. But if the public option is cheaper because of subsidies, that's what they'll choose, and the government will win out in the end.

Just give it time. The system will provide its own evidence as time goes on.

djchameleon · 04-02-2014, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Irrelevant of all the above, though, there is one simple fact that people should know: If you subsidize a public service, you'll need to take more taxes. And in relation to ANY insurance, if you reduce the amount of money insurance companies get from otherwise healthy people, there is simply not enough money for those companies to cover the sick. This is how insurance works. And that's why you see sky-high premiums in a privatized system when more people are subsidized by tax dollars in a government-run insurance program. But on the same token, if people aren't getting private health insurance, the same thing happens. At least people will be forced to choose between public or private, and maybe a greater number will choose private and drive down the private premiums. But if the public option is cheaper because of subsidies, that's what they'll choose, and the government will win out in the end.

Just give it time. The system will provide its own evidence as time goes on.

There is no public option though. I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

Freebase Dali · 04-03-2014, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

There is no public option though. I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

I think we have different ideas about what public options are...
In my case, I'm referring to an option that is funded by taxpayer money in some significant part, IE subsidies. I'm aware we don't just have the option to get free healthcare, UNLESS you do so through indigent care and prove you're absolutely unable to afford health care otherwise, which is completely available through University Medical Centers. At least here in LA. My dad just got surgery for free. In a red state. But he did have to wait months for it to happen... because he's far from the only one that needs assistance.

Obviously, indigent care is based on an income threshold. If a person made enough money to be able to afford full on privatized health care, they would not qualify for indigent. Nor should they.
"Public option", in my opinion, isn't about just deciding you want something for free. It's about needing something because you could not afford it otherwise.

03-28-2014, 06:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	What state is the health service in where you are? And don't say "Wisconsin" or something! I mean, how good or bad is it? Those who have been following my moans on the intros to the Journal Update Thread will know that I've had my pops at the Irish health system, and damn it deserves it! If you go to A&E and DON'T have a referral letter from a GP or a Medical Card (card issued by the State to various people with long-term illnesses that allows them to get medical services and pharms free) they charge you 100 Euro for your visit before you're even seen! The sign above reception says "Have your preferred method of payment with you as you approach!" So after paying for the privilege of getting to sit on a hard seat in the waiting room you can expect to be there for anything from 6 - 24 hours plus. Then if you want a bed you may be waiting another bunch of hours. If you want to go home (assuming you didn't need a bed and they discharged you) and like my sis need an ambulance to get you there, you can expect another 1 - 10 hours wait, and they can't say how long it will be. A report released yesterday revealed that only 1 in 3 people who phone with life-threatening emergencies are being seen to in the requisite time (ambulance should be there in eight minutes); someone's going to die, sooner or later, waiting on an ambulance. Now I should point out I don't blame the crews: they work all hours and they're great at what they do. This is all down to budget cuts in the health system, while the CEOs continue to award themselves huge bonuses for basically doing nothing. Same with the nurses and doctors. The ground level staff are all great but the top men make me sick. So, what's it like where you are? Better? Worse? Does what I say about Ireland shock you, or should I be grateful I don't live where you are? Is this normal? Exceptional? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

03-28-2014, 07:06 AM	#3 (permalink)
Pet_Sounds Remember the underscore Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The other side Posts: 2,488	Canada is pretty good, but in Ontario, surgery is tough to get, as they don't allow private practices. I knew a guy who had a herniated disc in his back, and the waiting list was something like two years! He ended up flying to B.C. to get it done privately. __________________ Everybody's dying just to get the disease

03-28-2014, 03:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	Well if you can afford private care you'll be ok, but a single bed in a hospital ward costs about 3000 Euro a night! So you'd want to be damn well insured! And that's another thing: private health insurance here is going through the roof. Mine is just short of 100 Euro a month, so that's what, over a thousand a year? They're trying to get universal health insurance for everyone, but as usual the govt, who came to power on many promises they have failed to keep, are dragging their feet on this one too. Many people are finding it hard to make ends meet and with the choice being between their health insurance and food, they're cancelling their insurance. I'm afraid to, as with my luck as soon as I do I'll find I suddenly need it. Bloody country! __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018