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Originally Posted by Astronomer
ladyislingering, interesting question - if you were to get pregnant, I'm assuming you would not keep the baby then? What would your thoughts be if you accidentally fell pregnant? Is your plan of action something you've discussed together?
Unrelated, but one thing I disagree with is people who say they want to have kids to that when they are old they have people to look after them and support them. My mother is one of these people, now that she is old and alone she loves to pull the guilt trip on me of "I raised you, now you have to look after me" and doesn't understand that I am a grown adult with my own life to live! (Don't think that I'm some cold-hearted bitch, I do look after my mother as much as I can muster, but she is also a psychopath, whole different story, but yeah...) Yes, when you have children it does mean that when you are old and incapacitated you will be surrounded by younger, fitter people who can help you and look after you but I don't think that should be a complete basis around having children.
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If I were to accidentally become pregnant (which is nearly inconceivable, considering the tight hold of control I have over my entire body) and natural remedies failed me, I would ultimately seek out proper care for an abortion. Ki has some... moral issues with abortion, but, I think, as most men with a distaste for the life-saving operation, he dismisses it without learning the facts, and doesn't even have a uterus, so it's not an issue he'd be personally concerned with to a sensible degree - HOWEVER, I do know that he would be accepting of my decision, because he loves me and cares about what's best for my health.
I think it's silly that people expect their children to act as caretakers in the last stages of their life. While I have seen it happen (my future father in law has spent several years of his life taking care of his parents, and was with his mother up until her last few seconds of life) I don't think it's as common of an occurrence as people seem to think it is. I have no plans to concern myself with my parents when it's their time to go. Everyone will die eventually; I haven't seen any of my actual blood relatives in about 3 years and I'm not bothered by this.
What happens if you outlive your child? Does that mean your plans for an end-of-life caretaker in training have failed you? Do you have to try again? The entire argument of "who will take care of you when you're old" is ridiculous. If I (and my partner) somehow make it to old age, comfortably, the funds will be there for professional end-of-life care. Because I didn't waste my resources on children.
What happens if your life is cut short? Did you have a child in vain? What if that child grows up to be a childfree adult? There is so much more to life than breeding for the sake of extending the life of your genetics or using your spawn for your own employment. It just seems senseless.
I like you. You seem to "get it".
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Originally Posted by Janszoon
I hear you. My mother-in-law is like that unfortunately. That said, if there were a "the many benefits of having children" I would say that having someone who will be your advocate when you're old is a big plus side of having kids. I look at my grandfather's case as a good example. He saved enough and planned enough so he wasn't a burden on anyone, but his children and grandchildren were still there to check on him and make sure he was getting everything he needed once it became hard for him to do those things for himself.
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And that's good. That's alright. That relationship was likely built on love. There are so few that have children because they love children, because they want to nurture and adore something that isn't guaranteed to ever return the sentiment. Those are parents. And there are some good parents out there. It's obvious that there was a proper upbringing for your grandfather's children (and grandchildren) but this nuclear family thing is not typical by any means.
Good, ideal, but less common than it used to be.
My problem is with people who were better off never having children because they've essentially just bred them for no reason at all, with no intention of being a parent, with no desire to be a parent, and instead of choosing the compassionate route of just not having children, they've subjected another life form to a miserable existence. (Just fyi I was definitely an "accident" child and neither of my parents were ever terribly fond of me, but my father had taken a slight liking to me in my adulthood - though never seems to answer my calls anymore.)
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Originally Posted by djchameleon
Well see you were able to have a pet as a kid as well as numerous other kids all over the world.
I don't even get that part of your argument that you mentioned earlier but it's fine. I won't go through your list and pick apart every single argument you had.
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What?
These days I'm even second-guessing how much time I'd have for a cat (which makes me kind of sad, because I love cats, but neither of us are really ever home) but I'd still rather have a cat than a child. My arms were built for holding cats (seriously, I don't know what to do with children, and I'm glad that nobody around me tries to hand their stinky spawn off on me) and I wish there was one in my lap right now, but logic prevails and I'd rather be able to be a good mom to my cat than to just have a cat and never be home.
I don't understand why people do illogical things. In this day and age, with the money being tight, the jobs being ****ty, the environment going to hell, the school systems pathetic, it's not logical to have children. It's not compassionate to have children. Unless somehow you have unlimited funds and they'll never have to worry about anything (ever) - in which case you'd still be doing society a great injustice by raising a kid with serious entitlement issues.
With the way things are these days, sometimes I seriously consider the value of voluntary human extinction.
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