Lord Larehip

But if we do away with the concepts, how do classify a large group of people who share the same genetic traits that set them off from another group? It's like saying the grouping of dogs into terriers and hounds is arbitrary since they are all just wolf genes. Okay, so what? It's still a useful grouping. It's silly to classify grey hounds, dachschunds and basset hounds each as a group unto itself when, in fact, they share similar characteristics that makes them all hounds and sets them apart from dogs we classify as terriers. Even if hounds and terriers could say they find the classifications offensive, oh well, it's still useful and they shouldn't be offended. If they are--tough tittie. Grow a pair and get used to it.

Even then, what does that mean? Genes are either dominant or recessive. Even within a racial group or genotype, certain genes become recessive or dominant due to contact with a different environment (what we call phenotype) that produces variations not seen in other members sharing that genotype. And this happens without interbreeding. In fact, you will often see greater differences in them than in people who are a product of interbreeding.





















But that doesn't hold across the board. It's a general rule not absolute. Other Indians in Mexico that lived in the same region and climate had far different facial features. When blood-type studies were done on African tribes, there was no correlation between neighboring tribes as we would have thought. Instead, the blood-type correlations were found in tribes that lived far apart and often outside of Africa. Neighboring tribes show different origins.

We don't know that. It's just as silly to think contact only happened once. Polynesian are called "Poly-" for a reason. They are a mixture of people so different groups of them made contact at different times in different regions. We know this for certain as Kennewick Man and Spirit Cave Man have already proven--Polynesians were living in North America but they bore no resemblance to Samoans or Melanesians. In fact, since they showed some genetic similarities to the Ainu of Japan, these two examples would have been more Caucasoid than Negroid.

Lord Larehip

In complete honesty, you're not far off.

The Batlord

And I suspect he wears a hat and has a job. He may even bring home the bacon as well.

__________________

John Wilkes Booth

I meant I thought it was outdated because it doesn't actually represent 3 distinct genetic subgroups and is determined rather by superficial markers that don't necessarily point to a common origin. Thus maybe not all that useful.
Not really sure what your point here is. Or rather, I get your point but I'm not sure how it helps your argument that the pictures I posted are members of the 'negroid' group. Groups are diverse and can vary. Great. So why do they have to be a part of the diverse 'negroid' group with certain features that are atypical of that group as opposed to members of one of the other 2 diverse groups with certain features that are atypical of those groups.
It's not an absolute, but it's a general rule for sound evolutionary reasons. So how far fetched is it that different populations living in different regions developed different features over that time span? Even if it was just selection for different traits that were already present in their gene pool.
To me, it's silly to assume that contact happened at whatever point in time we want it to based on the facial features of a statue. It's reasonable to think the Polynesians made contact in the first millennium AD because there's actual evidence for that.

anticipation

The term "Indian" does not mean the same thing as indigenous. There is no such thing as "Mexican Indian", "American Indian", those are hilariously false and antiquated beyond banality. I'm sorry but don't expect educated people to believe your racist blanket statements disguised as pseudoscience if you don't at least try to fool them with rhetoric.

Lord Larehip

And my friends are unaware.

Lord Larehip

Hmm. Okay, let's test that:

"northern Mexican Indian, member of any of the aboriginal peoples inhabiting northern Mexico."

northern Mexican Indian (people) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Mexican Indian Tribes and Languages
The above site is called "Mexican Indian Tribes and Languages. One of the books it recommends is called:

Mexico Indian Folk Designs: 252 Motifs from Textiles:
"Art book presenting illustrations of traditional designs from indigenous Mexican tribes."

Indigenous Peoples of Mexico
This site is belongs to Indians.org and is titled "Indigenous Peoples of Mexico."

So, yes, there are Mexican Indians and they themselves consider themselves both Indians and indigenous.

Now, let's look for American Indian:

American Indian College
Here is a website for the American Indian College.

American Indian Center of Chicago
Here's one for the American Indian Center - Chicago

The history of American Indians of North America
Another Indians.org site called "American Indians."

I think we can lay your canards to rest at this point, don't you? Wonderful thing--the internet. Know what's great about it? You can do research BEFORE you run your mouth and then you can keep your big, flat foot out of it. Makes it a lot easier to talk and eat.

Yeah.

Sansa Stark

Yeah but are you happier than him and me?

Lord Larehip

Classification is not all that useful. Ok, have it your way. Classification is not all that useful. You might want to inform science that they can get rid of that pesky periodic table of elements.

Because you evidently forgot what point you were earlier so I'll remind you: You said the Olmec heads did not depict Negroids because they lacked two traits for a loose definition I gave you. I pointed out the study of phenotypes deals with physical variations seen within a single race or a single genotype that can occur without interbreeding and supplied photos to illustrate. Remember now?

If I put a picture of a black person, a white person and a Far Eastern person in front of any random test subject and say which of these do the photos posted by JWB most resemble? Which would they be most likely to pick? Not white, I'll state that outright.

On, no! It IS absolute!!


Human Blood Types and Human Evolution

A word about DNA Genealogy and Anthropology Testing - DNA research on full-blooded indigenous populations from around the world has led to the discovery and documentation of genetic markers that are unique to populations, ethnicity and/or deep ancestral migration patterns. The markers having very specific modes of inheritance, and which are relatively unique to specific populations, are used to assess probabilities of ancestral relatedness. Available services include: Ancestral Heritage DNA testing, Native American DNA Verification, Y-Chromosome DNA Testing and mtDNA Sequence Analysis.

Race and Ethnicity Blood Type Analysis - BloodBook.com, Blood Types Listed by Race

Peter D'Adamo: Blood groups and the history of peoples

My speculation that the Olmecs were Polynesian of Negroid aspect is not just based on appearance. It has a sound scientific base:

Polynesian DNA found in old Native American bones | National Academy of Sciences

The flux of genes on the South Seas - Gene Expression | DiscoverMagazine.com

DNA shows how the sweet potato crossed the sea : Nature News & Comment

Lord Larehip

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La Venta 4 figurines with Great Pyramid in the background. Images: INAHLa Venta 4 figurines with Great Pyramid in the background. Images: INAH

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EXAMINATION OF OLMEC OFFERING FROM LA VENTA
Article created on Tuesday, January 28, 2014
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The present-day Mexican State of Tabasco houses the great Olmec city of La Venta which existed from around 1000 to 400 B.C. Archaeologists have found many fabulous offerings buried within the site – such La Venta 4 – which is composed of 16 different figurines carved out of various stones, representing male individuals accompanied by six celts.
The offering was located on the north platform of La Venta in 1955 by Eduardo Contreras (INAH), and for half a century the group was housed at the Museum of Natural History of the Smithsonian Institution and returned to Mexico in 2011. Since then it has been exhibited at the National Museum of Anthropology (MNA).
The offering was located on the North platform of La Venta in 1955. Image: INAH
The offering was located on the North platform of La Venta in 1955. Image: INAH
Layers of clay
The offering was carefully buried under layers of various coloured clay. The first layer was a coffee colour, followed by orange, pink, yellow and white, and possibly may refer to different levels of the cosmos. The figurines themselves all exhibit elongated skulls and slanted eyes without pupils. This is in contrast to the famous colossal Olmec heads which show no cranial deformation and have eyes with pupils.
Recent mineral analysis, as part of a more detailed study of La Venta 4, confirmed that the ancient Olmec civilization had a wide territorial and commercial reach, maintaining contact with Guatemala, Guerrero and Oaxaca.
Examining the physical evidence
The analysis was carried out ​​in conjunction with the Institute of Physics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM ), with support from Dr. Jose Luis Ruvalcaba. As a result it was possible to identify the type and varous sources of the green stones that the figurines were carved from <snip>

Examination of Olmec offering from La Venta - : Archaeology News from Past Horizons