Unknown Soldier

Yes we all know it was an extremely silly idea, but not everybody can think things through in a logical manner and fully understand the consequences of what's involved, hence the reason why some in life make a lot more mistakes than others. Personally I see the smuggling of drugs not much worse than smuggling alcohol and cigarettes for mass consumption. All are addictive and all help to destroy lives. Yet the punishment for smuggling the former over the other two is grossly unfair. That's the issue that I was raising here.

And how do you know all this? Quite easily really, because the strictness of the Arab World is extremely well publicized that everybody here and his pet hamster knows what to expect. I think you'd be surprised though, at just how little the average Brit would know about the strictness of smuggling in a country like Peru prior to what's happened, in fact what does the average Brit even know about Peru and how many have even travelled there! If I'm going to a new country, I'd find out all the things that will or could affect me, a lot of people though wouldn't really bother and I've known loads of people over the years that have travelled to various countries and when you ask them about their location and what to expect, they hardly know!

The above paragraph just proves my point on how 'naive' that they actually were. They got involved due to the circles that they got mixed up with and right through the whole process they have been naïve and have had no real understanding of the seriousness of their crime until now.

I'm not saying it should be left alone, but I'm stating the importance it plays in employment especially in rural areas of Latin America and its importance for certain elements of the population in order for them survive and if it is going to be abolished an assessment surely needs to be made here. At the end of the day, what's more important the survival of the local workers who rely on the industry there, or the well-being of addicts and potential addicts here in Europe? In an ideal world, the locals wouldn't need to grow it to survive and potential addicts would be so well educated that they wouldn't touch it, but as I said that's in an ideal world.

It's all very well having tough punishments, but it's hardly just when the mules get 25 years and the cartel dealers when they get caught, usually just end up paying off the police and the local judges, either for drastically reduced sentences or to turn a blind eye. It's all very well applying a European justice model, but in an extremely corrupt Latin American society the same rules just don't apply for everybody.

Like I said they deserved to be punished, but let's just say I'm far more forgiving than some and think there are far worst crimes than what they've done.

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The Batlord

I totally agree. In fact, I think we should cut off their hands. They can't carry around brief cases full of cocaine when they have no hands. The fact that's it's cruel and out of proportion to the crime is irrelevent, since deterring crime by any means necessary is what's important.

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Cuthbert

I admit I like to rant.

But also because they are stupid beyond belief, they are not kids, they are adults who knew what they were doing and are still playing the victim card despite evidence against them. Forced to smile on a beach drinking cocktails ffs . I could imagine them if they somehow managed to escape from prison uploading a load of photos to Instagram, pouting outside the prison gates #theywillneverknow #catchmeifyoucan #lol

If they were forced into it out of poverty, crippling debt, threatened or something I could understand but this was purely motivated by greed and wanting to live the high life. Nothing else. They lived the party life for a bit, thought they were Billy big bollocks, been offered a trip to South America by someone within that party crowd and probably thought this life just gets better and better, woop woop off to South America.

What is a large quantity of a girl's life spent in prison for smuggling drugs that could do damage a thousand times greater if it were allowed to go through it's intended route and supplied for use? And you need to look at the effect the drugs have in the countries they are produced. 50,000 people have been murdered in Mexico in the last 5 years as a result of their drugs trade. Pollution and destruction of the Amazon due to the manufacturing process, indigenous locals being kicked off their land and killed in Peru and Northern Brazil. If we were seeing people walk around the streets here with uzi's and hanging people from motorway bridges we'd consider smuggling a suitcase filled with £1.5m of cocaine to be a very serious offence.

They've got all they deserve, in fact as I said earlier I hope they rot for doing the crime, coming up with shit lies to get out of it, being ugly as fuck, being thick as fuck, being ugly as fuck, annoying me, being thick as fuck and finally being ugly as fuck.

Fuck them.

Trollheart

You said thick as fuck and ugly as fuck twice, but they were warranted repetitions.

Also, you've put into words my own feelings as I inadequately expressed them a few days earlier, earning comments from Jansz and Batlord. It's not just the fact that they broke the law and tried to wiggle (not a spelling error) their way out of it. It's the total disregard for the effect the sale or supply of the coke would have on the lives of so many. They didn't give two shits about that; in fact they seem the type who if someone they knew died of a cocaine overdose they'd have grinned and posted about it on FB, saying "we helped do that." Well maybe not but they don't seem to have a shred of conscience.

Definitely go down as two of the stupidest would-be smugglers in history, and I hope they learn something from what will hopefully be a trying and scary time for them in prison in Peru. Also hope there is no attempt to have them serve their time in UK, with the cushy setup prisons have here! Wouldn't be too surprised though.

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Cuthbert

So punish the drug barons as well then. These shouldn't get off just because the barons are paying people off.

Unknown Soldier

....and how do you propose that's done. Having the Americans or the UN invade?

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Trollheart

So what's your solution Julian? I asked you and Batty this and got no reply. Given a choice, would you
a) Punish the carriers because you can't get to the bosses or
b) Let them go free/go easy on them because see (a) above?

I mean, what you're suggesting is utopianism thinking isn't it? They didn't know (yeah) so let them go or go easy on them? You think they haven't at one time or another watched "Banged up abroad" or any of the other dozens of TV shows and films that lay out the dangers of doing this? Of course they knew; if they didn't then they should be locked up somewhere where they won't get to see ... oh wait...

Look I know it's not good to laugh at people being imprisoned but their whole attitude is what landed them here. They thought they'd make some fast money and become folk heroes among their mates, and as CB says had they got away with this they'd have been gloating all over FaceBloodyBook and so on about how clever they were. They're getting what they deserved and you'll find few people who have sympathy for them.

However

This conversation is just going in circles now. You have your ideas of what should have been done, I have mine and for the sake of friendship and maintaining harmony (nice girl, she is! Almost as nice as Melody!) and not contributing to drama I'll just bow out now and let's all agree to have our own opinions but understand others have different ones. And I'll go back to writing about Marillion, Futurama and preparing for Metal Month!

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Unknown Soldier

This is not a simple solution but neither is handing out ridiculous sentences either. To keep this short and sweet. I'd sentence the girls to about 5 years community service in Peru, where they'd need to work an 8 hour day 5 days a week, aiding some of the local communities either urban or rural, as both are quite distinct there. They would work in the capacity of labouring, caring and teaching in these communities, basically doing voluntary work for 5 years and would have to stay in Peru for this time period. In that time they would've learnt a lot of new skills and given a hell of a lot to the local population and really do some good. Sentencing somebody for a crime should be a remedial exercise where possible and in this case it could be so and they could pay for their crime this way. Because just chucking them in a Peruvian prison for years on end, achieves nothing, other than satisfying sadists who like to see human suffering. These prisons should be for violent and dangerous offenders and not for a couple of easily led girls.

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Trollheart

Just so you know I read your reply (thanks for the answer) I think that's a good idea on the surface, but what would happen if the girls legged it while on some jungle trail or whatever, is what I would worry about. However at least that shows you are thinking about solutions, not just rubbishing what's being done at the moment.

I also think a good idea would be to properly educate Western people as to the risks they take if they do this sort of thing. People going on holidays to these countries might have the option maybe of sitting through a short video or being sent a pamphlet clearly outlining what the laws in that country are, how they differ to the UK and what those who break them can expect.

Although I definitely don't subscribe to this idea that they didn't know what they were risking. They knew it, and were too arrogant to believe they would be caught.

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Unknown Soldier

I'd think they'd be fairly aware of the consequences of trying to leg it, which would entail a prison sentence. As for legging it on a jungle trail, I think you've been watching too many movies, as their chances of making it would be remote. I mean how could they leave without papers and money.

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