They've been charged :cool:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSNW2r2CMAAOyvx.jpg

Looking at up to 15 years in jail. I was listening to the radio last night think they said they could be waiting up to three years for the case to go to court.

Instagram Her Instagram, tags ffs :D. #wongamaker :o:.

Instagram Tag on this one made me laugh, #notcominghome :cool:.

At least the Irish one's hair will ensure she gets a decent job in jail as the prison mop! :rofl: They looked amazed to be charged: what did they think? The police were going to turn around and say, oh ok girls, you can go home now, just don't do it again?

As Mister Mister once said: welcome to the real world!

:laughing:

Brilliant.

im kinda confused about the general attitude from u guys. like yea these are two dumbasses but im not sure the reason for the rooting so hard for them to get locked away forever lol. maybe the media coverage is different for u guys so theres a perspective or angle im not seein, it just seems weird to me

Don't know where you're from 216, but it's because Irish and UK news are so (or were so) all "oh these poor girls! They were forced to do it! They're enduring a nightmare!" when in fact all signs point now to there being nothing of the sort. They tried it on and got caught, but instead of admitting that they're trying to act like they're the victims.

So fuck them. I hope they both rot.

I admit I like to rant.

But also because they are stupid beyond belief, they are not kids, they are adults who knew what they were doing and are still playing the victim card despite evidence against them. Forced to smile on a beach drinking cocktails ffs :D. I could imagine them if they somehow managed to escape from prison uploading a load of photos to Instagram, pouting outside the prison gates #theywillneverknow #catchmeifyoucan #lol

If they were forced into it out of poverty, crippling debt, threatened or something I could understand but this was purely motivated by greed and wanting to live the high life. Nothing else. They lived the party life for a bit, thought they were Billy big bollocks, been offered a trip to South America by someone within that party crowd and probably thought this life just gets better and better, woop woop off to South America.

What is a large quantity of a girl's life spent in prison for smuggling drugs that could do damage a thousand times greater if it were allowed to go through it's intended route and supplied for use? And you need to look at the effect the drugs have in the countries they are produced. 50,000 people have been murdered in Mexico in the last 5 years as a result of their drugs trade. Pollution and destruction of the Amazon due to the manufacturing process, indigenous locals being kicked off their land and killed in Peru and Northern Brazil. If we were seeing people walk around the streets here with uzi's and hanging people from motorway bridges we'd consider smuggling a suitcase filled with £1.5m of cocaine to be a very serious offence.

They've got all they deserve, in fact as I said earlier I hope they rot for doing the crime, coming up with shit lies to get out of it, being ugly as fuck, being thick as fuck, being ugly as fuck, annoying me, being thick as fuck and finally being ugly as fuck.

Fuck them.

You said thick as fuck and ugly as fuck twice, but they were warranted repetitions.

Also, you've put into words my own feelings as I inadequately expressed them a few days earlier, earning comments from Jansz and Batlord. It's not just the fact that they broke the law and tried to wiggle (not a spelling error) their way out of it. It's the total disregard for the effect the sale or supply of the coke would have on the lives of so many. They didn't give two shits about that; in fact they seem the type who if someone they knew died of a cocaine overdose they'd have grinned and posted about it on FB, saying "we helped do that." Well maybe not but they don't seem to have a shred of conscience.

Definitely go down as two of the stupidest would-be smugglers in history, and I hope they learn something from what will hopefully be a trying and scary time for them in prison in Peru. Also hope there is no attempt to have them serve their time in UK, with the cushy setup prisons have here! Wouldn't be too surprised though.

I for one think they should be punished, but the 15 or 25 years in a Peruvian jail doesn't fit the crime. These were just two silly girls who were naive enough to get involved in something that they really had no deep understanding of. The 15 to 25 years should actually be for the dealers and cartel members and not the carriers.

I don't think you mean that. They were carrying cocaine which is a drug that is normally used by a higher quality clientele than the drug addicts that you probably have in mind, they buy it as an almost fashion accessory usually from choice or an addiction. Most users I've come across here in the UK, have been professionals or trendy types.

You also need to remember that in certain parts of Latin America, cocaine production is a vital source of employment for elements of the local population. Sure the drug barons are exploiting them, but without this income these people would be even poorer than they are now, Latin America largely has no welfare state, so if you don't work you don't eat.

I think everyone understands smuggling drugs from one country to another is illegal and it is for this reason that they deserve the punishment. Whether you think the punishment fits the crime or not is irrelevant because they knew the risks.

'Shall we smuggle drugs from Peru and risk spending the best years of our lives in prison? No, that's a silly idea.'

Or...

'Shall we smuggle drugs from Peru and risk spending the best years of our lives in prison? Yes but if we get caught let's just say we didn't do it.'

They made the choice. The punishment is there for a reason. If they get something pathetic like 5 years and they serve half in a British jail that's not much of a deterrent to other people thinking of doing this is it? Nobody on this message board would attempt to smuggle 1.5m of cocaine back from South America because we know the penalties involved. This is a crime that everyone knows is illegal in pretty much every country in the world, a crime that will get you sent away for many years anywhere where you are caught. If they had been caught doing something that they didn't know was illegal I would have a bit of sympathy for them, however they committed a crime that even the most stupid of idiots would know about and would know that if you were caught it wouldn't be very nice for the next few years.

Would you go to an Arab country wearing nothing but shorts whilst swigging from a can of lager while your missus is in a thong and nothing else swigging a WKD? No you wouldn't because regardless of whether in England that would get you locked up, in the country you are in it is illegal, and as such you abide by their rules whether you think they are stupid and the punishment fits the crime or not.

They wouldn't be asking anyone to feel sorry for them if they hadn't got caught - they'd be in Ibiza living it up on their ill-gotten "wages". They played a game of chance and lost, fuck 'em. Should consider themselves lucky it wasn't Bali.

I most certainly do mean what I say. There was nothing "naive" about the way they got involved. The reports show that they were having drug-fuelled parties, meeting these "drug barons" and their representatives, and actively preparing to, as one of them said, "see a man about a dog", so they had more than enough cop-on to know what they were getting into. They tried to screw the system and the system screwed them. Not content with that, they tried to play the "little miss innocent" card, and when the evidence that blew that away surfaced they looked stupid and also manipulative, certainly of public opinion.

I don't agree with your contention that the drug industry provides employment and so it should be left alone. That's a specious argument. You could use that to justify any illegal enterprise. Anyhow I'm not necessarily saying the production of the cocaine is the problem, it's the fact that it's destroying lives and dividing families. I have no time for hard drugs --- or any drugs really, but I know some of you extol the harmlessness of things like weed and cannabis (are they the same thing?) and I have nothing terribly against them --- and no excuse will work as far as I'm concerned when it comes to these.

The punishment has to be harsh. Some people could do a three/five year stretch and go on to do the same thing again. A serious, tough message has to be sent and I think this is a good thing. You think any other stupid European girls or guys thinking about doing the same will be having second thoughts now?

I stand by my original comment. I respect your opinion but that is mine and it's not going to be changed. If as I said they had owned up then fine, but they tried to pretend they were all innocent, made up a cock and bull story and frankly deserve everything they get, and more.

Yes we all know it was an extremely silly idea, but not everybody can think things through in a logical manner and fully understand the consequences of what's involved, hence the reason why some in life make a lot more mistakes than others. Personally I see the smuggling of drugs not much worse than smuggling alcohol and cigarettes for mass consumption. All are addictive and all help to destroy lives. Yet the punishment for smuggling the former over the other two is grossly unfair. That's the issue that I was raising here.

And how do you know all this? Quite easily really, because the strictness of the Arab World is extremely well publicized that everybody here and his pet hamster knows what to expect. I think you'd be surprised though, at just how little the average Brit would know about the strictness of smuggling in a country like Peru prior to what's happened, in fact what does the average Brit even know about Peru and how many have even travelled there! If I'm going to a new country, I'd find out all the things that will or could affect me, a lot of people though wouldn't really bother and I've known loads of people over the years that have travelled to various countries and when you ask them about their location and what to expect, they hardly know!

The above paragraph just proves my point on how 'naive' that they actually were. They got involved due to the circles that they got mixed up with and right through the whole process they have been naïve and have had no real understanding of the seriousness of their crime until now.

I'm not saying it should be left alone, but I'm stating the importance it plays in employment especially in rural areas of Latin America and its importance for certain elements of the population in order for them survive and if it is going to be abolished an assessment surely needs to be made here. At the end of the day, what's more important the survival of the local workers who rely on the industry there, or the well-being of addicts and potential addicts here in Europe? In an ideal world, the locals wouldn't need to grow it to survive and potential addicts would be so well educated that they wouldn't touch it, but as I said that's in an ideal world.

It's all very well having tough punishments, but it's hardly just when the mules get 25 years and the cartel dealers when they get caught, usually just end up paying off the police and the local judges, either for drastically reduced sentences or to turn a blind eye. It's all very well applying a European justice model, but in an extremely corrupt Latin American society the same rules just don't apply for everybody.

Like I said they deserved to be punished, but let's just say I'm far more forgiving than some and think there are far worst crimes than what they've done.

I totally agree. In fact, I think we should cut off their hands. They can't carry around brief cases full of cocaine when they have no hands. The fact that's it's cruel and out of proportion to the crime is irrelevent, since deterring crime by any means necessary is what's important.

If that was the law in Peru and they had got their hands cut off as a result of their crime I honestly wouldn't give a fuck mate.

If you do the crime you should do the time.

Only the mules and the poor would have their hands cut off, the drug barons and those with money would still be able to eat with one and wank with the other.

Then why do you even care about their crimes? If you have such tolerance for brutality then what's the big deal with cocaine trafficking? Sounds like peanuts to me.

It's not peanuts though is it, certain people on here see it as bad as torture, murder, rape and kidnapping.

I don't care about their crime that much. I don't think they should get a lighter sentence just cos people feel a bit sorry for them when they are clearly lying.

So why are you "ranting"? If you don't care about their crime then where's your emotional involvement? Do you just not like them as people and want to see them suffer out of spite?

I like to rant and I find their story ridiculous.

When two girls who think that it's all a simple game try it, fail and then try and bullshit their way out of it by asking for sympathy or support then fuck off, they deserve it.

They deserve two decades of being locked up with hardened criminals for being stupid? They deserve two decades of their lives being thrown away for trying to get out of jail the same as anyone else in their situation would?

If that's the law and they've knowingly broke it then yes. :confused:

You keep saying this over and over again, BUT the law is not the same for all there, so it's hardly justice. Secondly, you seem to be condoning the justice system of Peru like its sacrosanct and beyond criticism. This in itself runs contrary to what you said earlier, in that you don't really care about the crime, more the fact that they were lying to get sympathy. Also it's debatable on how much that they actually knew about the laws there as well, as they weren't issued with an English translation of Peruvian laws.

If the law says drug trafficking is punishable by up to 20 years in prison and they're found guilty of drug trafficking then I'm failing to see how they shouldn't get a heavy sentence for smuggling 1.5m of coke.

Yeah, there is a chance they thought it was legal to bring 11kg of coke back.

That's not what's being debated here, what is being debated is how unjust the legal system is there to impose this type of sentence. Also you've avoided again the question that was put to you earlier. And that was why should you feel so strongly about them being sentenced, when you don't overly care about the actual crime?

Nobody has suggested that, all that I've suggested is that they didn't know the severity of the crime when caught. Cocaine is a party drug that people have a good time with and there is no reason why two silly young girls should be aware of the draconian laws attached to it in Peru. I very much doubt that the dealers that got them involved, were on-hand to issue warnings about the risks that the operation entailed.

I don't get why you guys don't seem to think this is a big deal. Seriously, what would you have happen? It's not like they tried to smuggle a small amount of coke in: it was eleven kilos! That's like filling my biggest, fattest cat up with coke and then cloning him twice and filling those two up also. That is a LOT of coke! This is no "oh we didn't know" situation: these girls clearly knew they were taking a risk but decided the money was worth it. How US can say they may not have known Peruvian law is beyond me: it's well known that countries outside of Europe have harsher laws for drug smuggling to try and reduce it. Anyway, if they were going to do this do you not think they would have checked out the penalties if they were caught? If they didn't they were either monumentally stupid or believed there was no chance they would get caught OR if they did, they could lie their way out of it.

Nobody likes being used. People have been used here: used to try to protest the innocence of two stupid women who do not deserve it, and people are angry at them. I can't understand your tolerance for this sort of thing. Why should it NOT be a big deal? What sort of message does it send to future would-be smugglers if these people are not clamped down upon hard?

And yes, I know the barons get off because they can pay, but hey that's just how the world works. Same as when the scandal in Abu Gharib broke: who went down? A few soldiers and some bog-level officers. No top brass, even though it was clear they knew and had possibly condoned this behaviour. If this was an ideal world ALL of the guilty would be punished but it's not and sometimes it's the foot soldiers who pay. The fact that they are willing to BE footsoldiers makes them just as guilty and just as liable to prosecution as the bosses.

I don't feel 'strongly' about it really. They're just lying ****s who have been caught trafficking drugs, loads of people try it but they're the ones who've been caught, they should get a harsh sentence if they're found guilty.

You don’t **** about like they have in countries like that, you’re asking for trouble.

Hopefully by the time they're sentenced there is something on Facebook I can like that will make sure they get 25 years.

That they'd likely get many years in prison for it? I'm sure everyone would know this. You cannot seriously think you can smuggle the amount of coke they tried to smuggle and expect to get a slap on the wrist ffs :D.

It certainly is a lot of coke and its seizure should have had some effect on the supply of it in Europe......but that is not going to be the case and cocaine will continue to flow here. But how is that possible when airport security there is that strict? It should be easy to seize nearly all the coke that goes through shouldn't it? But no, it still comes through and the corrupt officials there are paid to look the other way, but of course to show the international community that Peru is doing their bit, they have to seize some and make an example of the carriers. All these girls were was unlucky, as had they had better protectors they would've walked away after a pay-off before it became public knowledge. Again I stress that it's impossible to have any real justice under these circumstances.

You might know this, I might know this, but that doesn't mean that all elements of the population are going to be equally aware.

Like I said, there is a good chance they may not have been aware, only time will tell on this with the trial.

Whether you clamp down hard on these people makes no difference, smuggling will go on as it's good business for all concerned. Unless you address the production of the product and educate the users more, harsh prison sentences will have little effect here.

The barons get off and the foot soldiers pay the price for failure, I won't argue that it's not the way of the world, but don't ask me to agree with punishing the foot soldiers with harsh laws, while the drug barons walk free.

So punish the drug barons as well then. These shouldn't get off just because the barons are paying people off.

So it can be clarified that you don't really care about the crime, but do think 25 years is a suitable prison sentence because they told lies in a smug way.

I can remember a case in either an Asian or African state about 15 years ago, where a guy had been caught drug smuggling, he was awaiting execution for his crime. He was crying as he told his story to the reporters, of how he wasn't aware that there was a death penalty if he was caught. He wasn't the brightest of people and it was obvious he'd had no real education and had been lured with easy money. I watched that interview and I remember it as I had just done my Masters degree, and also I had no idea that the death penalty applied in that country and neither did any of the people I mentioned it to either. I see no reason why these two girls should be aware of the 25 year prison sentence in Peru either.

....and how do you propose that's done. Having the Americans or the UN invade?

So what's your solution Julian? I asked you and Batty this and got no reply. Given a choice, would you
a) Punish the carriers because you can't get to the bosses or
b) Let them go free/go easy on them because see (a) above?

I mean, what you're suggesting is utopianism thinking isn't it? They didn't know (yeah) so let them go or go easy on them? You think they haven't at one time or another watched "Banged up abroad" or any of the other dozens of TV shows and films that lay out the dangers of doing this? Of course they knew; if they didn't then they should be locked up somewhere where they won't get to see ... oh wait... ;)

Look I know it's not good to laugh at people being imprisoned but their whole attitude is what landed them here. They thought they'd make some fast money and become folk heroes among their mates, and as CB says had they got away with this they'd have been gloating all over FaceBloodyBook and so on about how clever they were. They're getting what they deserved and you'll find few people who have sympathy for them.

However

This conversation is just going in circles now. You have your ideas of what should have been done, I have mine and for the sake of friendship and maintaining harmony (nice girl, she is! Almost as nice as Melody!) ;) and not contributing to drama I'll just bow out now and let's all agree to have our own opinions but understand others have different ones. And I'll go back to writing about Marillion, Futurama and preparing for Metal Month!
:wavey:

They should get the suitable punishment for the crime, if the law says 25 years then that's what they should get, that is what I'm saying, they should not be let off because they are young women or thick as shit or because they play the sympathy card.

I'm lolling at them because they've lied and their story is so embarrassingly shit.

If they'd have nicked a packet of crisps from a supermarket over there I wouldn't be saying they should get 25 years if they lied about it even if the law said they should only get a fine.

They don't have to be aware of it being 25 years, the crux to it is they will have known it carried a heavy punishment and that it was illegal (same as that guy in your story).

It's irrelevant to the point I'm making. Just cos the barons get off we're supposed to think these should get off as well? You're saying people should have a free shot at smuggling drugs?

This is not a simple solution but neither is handing out ridiculous sentences either. To keep this short and sweet. I'd sentence the girls to about 5 years community service in Peru, where they'd need to work an 8 hour day 5 days a week, aiding some of the local communities either urban or rural, as both are quite distinct there. They would work in the capacity of labouring, caring and teaching in these communities, basically doing voluntary work for 5 years and would have to stay in Peru for this time period. In that time they would've learnt a lot of new skills and given a hell of a lot to the local population and really do some good. Sentencing somebody for a crime should be a remedial exercise where possible and in this case it could be so and they could pay for their crime this way. Because just chucking them in a Peruvian prison for years on end, achieves nothing, other than satisfying sadists who like to see human suffering. These prisons should be for violent and dangerous offenders and not for a couple of easily led girls.

Just so you know I read your reply (thanks for the answer) I think that's a good idea on the surface, but what would happen if the girls legged it while on some jungle trail or whatever, is what I would worry about. However at least that shows you are thinking about solutions, not just rubbishing what's being done at the moment.

I also think a good idea would be to properly educate Western people as to the risks they take if they do this sort of thing. People going on holidays to these countries might have the option maybe of sitting through a short video or being sent a pamphlet clearly outlining what the laws in that country are, how they differ to the UK and what those who break them can expect.

Although I definitely don't subscribe to this idea that they didn't know what they were risking. They knew it, and were too arrogant to believe they would be caught.

I'd think they'd be fairly aware of the consequences of trying to leg it, which would entail a prison sentence. As for legging it on a jungle trail, I think you've been watching too many movies, as their chances of making it would be remote:). I mean how could they leave without papers and money.

I really like this idea. At the end of the day the police will keep their papers and they could report every week to a probation officer. I think this would really teach them some great life skills and that life isn't always about drugs and parties.

It's a great solution for non-violent offenders and a solution where so many people benefit long term. Especially in a country like Peru where prison capacity is running at 200%.

If we don't come up with the like, our children, or children's children will, and the world will be a brighter place.

Community service for trafficing? come on now. You are acting like they were caught with just a little bit that they were using for recreational purposes. Horrible idea!

The policy in regards to punishment down there is so that punishment should be so tough that it discourages people from being drug mules. If a case gets international attention, I would think that Peruvian authorities would generally think of it as a good thing and a chance to make an example. I personally think lighter punishment like Unknown Soldier mentions, or them serving some sentence in the UK instead, makes more sense, morally speaking, but I doubt that will happen.