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Pro-Choice? |
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66 | 84.62% |
Pro-Life |
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7 | 8.97% |
Prefer Not To Choose |
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5 | 6.41% |
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1 (permalink) | |
Account Disabled
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,235
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As an aside, I think that the tendency to use terms like "lump of cells" points to an attempt at emotional detachment from the pro-choice angle. It's not a rational argument, just an attempt to dehumanize the thing we'd like to kill. |
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#2 (permalink) | |
gimme gimme
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: istanbul
Posts: 897
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#3 (permalink) | |
Juicious Maximus III
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scabb Island
Posts: 6,525
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In the present when the decision to abort is made, the fetus generally has more in common with that braindead person on life support than it does a grown, healthy human with regular human rights. I think the distinction between having the ability to feel, think, reflect and perceive - or not - is an important one and it's also one widely used in other situations. As a moral idea, it is widely accepted. F.ex a vegetarian may think it is better to kill a plant than it is a pig because the plant suffers less from getting killed. Should we protect the "interests" of the fetus (it has no interests) or the interests of the mother (she does)? Of the two, the one who can feel, reflect, perceive and so on is the mother and so it is her interests/rights we should look after. How is it not rational? It's pretty much calling it what it is without getting tangled up in future possibilities and human emotions. How is it more rational to portray it as a person with thoughts, feelings, perceptions, life experiences, etc. when it isn't?
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Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 07-19-2013 at 05:34 AM. |
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#4 (permalink) | |||||
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edit - Interesting article on the topic: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...iousness-arise Quote:
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It's also not rational to give a fetus the attributes you just listed (thoughts, feelings, etc). I don't see this as the obvious alternative to "just a lump of cells" though. Last edited by John Wilkes Booth; 07-19-2013 at 11:58 AM. |
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#5 (permalink) | |||||
Juicious Maximus III
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scabb Island
Posts: 6,525
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If you abort a fetus, you cause suffering to the mother who asked for it, is ready to take the moral responsibility, and probably thinks she's getting the best possible outcome, even if it's not painless for her. Quote:
A "lump of cells" without a developed nervous system doesn't have that capacity. Quote:
So generally speaking, I believe murders of five year olds on average causes a little more suffering than the murder of one year olds. A five year old on average has more relations which will suffer. But practically speaking, both crimes are so heinous that the difference doesn't matter much. Quote:
If you want to mix personality, thoughts and dreams into it, those are also reduced when describing adults as lumps of cells, but not when describing fetuses as such as these things have yet to develop, if they would at all. Quote:
So if we reduce all that to a simple capacity for suffering, that's really what I'm interested in and that's where I think fetuses are lacking. I also think there are few people whose happiness or suffering depends on a fetus compared to the average child or adult and so removing one does less harm in the world than when removing a born human being. My thoughts are a mix between a utilitarian wish for the best outcome happiness / suffering wise, but I also think that having a choice to abort generally gives good consequences for society. As I wrote earlier, happy families with healthy children. Parents will have more freedom to have healthy children when they want them and can support them. If you force them to become parents at a time when they don't want them, can't support them or when the child would be so sick they'd rather not have it, of course they may in time become a fully functional, happy family. But I think on average, the families people make will be a little happier if they get to choose for themselves whether to make them / add to them or not.
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Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 07-19-2013 at 01:30 PM. |
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#6 (permalink) | |
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies
Posts: 1,463
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actually same goes for any abortion. i always feel like that if everyone was placed in a situation where abortion was an option then maybe they would feel differnet about it. because its very easy to make statements from a distance and make yourself feel like you ar emorally superior. like i said i had a girl get an abortion awhile ago and you just have to think practically and logically and try to remove emotion as best as possible. |
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#7 (permalink) | |||||
Account Disabled
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Basically, utilitarian morality can easily give rational reasons for supporting abortion. What I am skeptical about is its ability to give a complete and consistent account of why we place such value on human life, which is honestly the only reason pro-lifers care about abortion in the first place. |
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