But you did, go read your post again you said if you haven't lived through this you are unqualified to speak on the subject.

How is a guy ever gonna get pregnant and live through this !? >_<

You didn't make a distinction, if you had said ppl with experience on this subject from a personal stand point has more credibility that someone who hasn't, then i would be in agreeance with you.

but you basically stated if you haven't lived through it you're unqualified to speak on the subject

UNQUALIFIED as in, "you don't know what you're talking about" meaning you can't possibly be right.

I'm not referring to abortion in general in talking about "maternal instincts."

Oh.. well yea in that case you're kinda right.

although ive seen it first hand, exmpl,

The mother of my daughter was a smoker but when she found out we were having a baby the first thing she did was quit cigarettes for the baby.

An opposing exmpl, my friend's girl was pregnant with his child and she openly admit it she was having the baby just for him (he really wanted a kid)

She smoked cigarettes and even drank during her pregnancy and guess what? she lost the baby.

Now, i know each person has their own way for caring about things but i think you can spot a maternal instinct from how the girl treats her pregnancy.

Some girls instantly make the baby the priority, other girls are kinda 'meh' about the whole thing, other girls don't even care, i can't possibly cover all the possibilities in a statement all im trying to say is that some females feel a very strong maternal instinct right away.

It's fine to speak to your observations. Just be careful not to present them as facts.

But.. but.. i never did that. :(

i know this is a complicated issue with no simple answer.

do i really need to start all my post with the disclaimer "This is just my opinion" don't we all know that? and for god sakes IM A GUY i can't possibly know what goes through a pregnant female's head, so ofc all i say is my opinions based on my experience on this subject but i never stated they are a fact of life.

The tone behind your posts say otherwise. You seem to say "of course as a man I don't understand but really you guys I know what I'm talking about."

*Sighs*

Can't even agree with you when i agree with you.

if i address this with some sense of confidence is because i have lived through this experience as GUY with a female partner.

but again, it doesn't mean it's the absolute truth,
im f*ckin amazed i have to keep stating this.

@Black Francis, I never said you were an *******, do not put words in my mouth.
I simply want you to understand the statement you made was completely wrong. Had you said two simple words. "I feel" there wouldn't have been **** I could have said to you. Because you feel that way, and no matter how you feel you are not wrong in feeling so. But you made generalized statement, about the maternal chain being broken, and woman feeling like they gave up motherhood.
You don't know how women feel about it. You know your particular situation. And you how that made you feel say that. Don't say you know about something you will never understand because you can't carry a baby in your womb for nine months. You can't give birth to a child and know what it is to see the look of motherhood on another woman's face. You don't know because you are a man. POINT BLANK PERIOD. YOU can have an opinion, but it is only going to be half right. Because you are a man.

I'm just trying to help you understand why Roxy was upset by what you said.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

aight, aight, i get it, i got across like some cocky know it all..

But honestly girls it was just a little personal theory of mine.

and i formed this theory after some experience ive had with this, experience i actually wrote down in this post but then i deleted it because i don't want to keep arguing with you girls.

Roxy i apologise if you felt judged by my statement, i admit it's a little judgy but plz know i didn't mean to offend you personally, aight?

Dude, I love you lets start there.

That being said, you haven't lived through adoption. Your chick chose the other route. That would be like me saying I know what that is like, because I held a girlfriend of mine in my arms while she cried after her ordeal went down. I can sympathize with her. But I can't say I know what she felt like that day. Just like you can't say you know what I feel, or any other woman.

BECAUSE YOU ARE A MAN BROTHER.

Maybe, going about this topic with some humility, instead of the self assured I am right in my way of thinking, you wouldn't get your head bit off. I am not sensitive about the greatest thing I have ever done with my life. What I am sensitive about, is people thinking they know what that is like, and stating about their opinion, with blind conviction.

Honey I ain't mad atcha. I want to help you understand.

Reach one, teach one man. Your personal experience with it only makes you a parent. Not a birth mother. HUGE DIFFERENCE. There is a joy that came for me personally knowing, that the lady my daughter went to waited two years on the waiting list, until someone picked her. I look at adopted children quite differently, in the respect that they were chosen. I choose not to be a part of her life right now, because that would confuse her. And that is not fair to her adopted mother. When she is 18 she is free to find me, and to learn I gave her up not because I didn't love her, but because I loved her that much.

The blind conviction of a guy i might add :p:

Honestly i should know better than to walk into an abortion thread telling woman how they feel lolol

I can't put myself in your panties i just can't.

;)....Wise man.

I am very much in support with this statement

And this one haha

And my original sentiments that it is ultimately up to the person carrying the fetus.... 10/10 times, the female... to decide if she wants to or not.

I'm like most people. I'm pro-life, but pro choice

Look, I'm religious, and that's why you may think overly strict here, but abortion is an objective issue for me (on paper, of course, in real life it's considerably more difficult for me to support my beliefs arguing against a real human being (especially a woman such as yourself), because emotions come into play, for better and for worse).

Personally, I believe the Bible says abortion is wrong, I don't like it, I feel that life is sacred, etc....but again, in real life I'm totally okay with compromising on abortion if absolutely necessary to achieve other goals.

You may be surprised to hear this, but I actually vote Democrat 90% of the time. I elect people who will best run our country, and I dislike that some people vote based strictly on moral issues. Abortion takes a back seat to supporting welfare, universal healthcare, and the economy.


This is pretty much the furthest thing from what I believe. I don't agree with anything you've said here, but I'm fine with your stance. Your arguments suck ass and are full of fallacies though.

You didn't mention what 'views' you're talking about here, but let's talk about Christianity's view on abortion: If you understood maybe 5% of what a Christian worldview is, you'd realize that 100% of all Christians believe that human life is sacred, so that bolded statement is completely irrelevant. **** animals, humans are so ****ing better than any ****ing animal.

Understand your opponent's stance on an issue before you start trying to debate (albeit poorly) with them.

So, let me get this straight, because you go to church and read the bible, it's ok on paper to throw your opinions around? But in real life you are ok with supporting a means to an end that is either medically necessary, or maybe emotionally damaging to the mother if not aborted.

You realize you are hanging your agenda on god right? Show me in the bible where it says THOU SHALT NOT ABORT THY BABY. (I have read the bible cover to cover, many times, and in different translations.It's not there.)

Now the fact that in irl, you have a completely different thought process on the issue tells me two things. One, you get off on spewing your religious filled rhetoric at people,your ego likes to be inflated by judging. (Attitudes like this pollute the church and is one the reasons I dropped out of seminary.) And two, your belief in your rhetoric is so blind, the only thing you can do is twist God's words around to fit your personal needs. It amuses me, when humans do this. Because we are all so narcissistic we think God actually thinks like we do. It's the I think there for I am mentality. I can read the bible and walk away with the belief that reincarnation exists because I read a verse in second Timothy one time. Does that make it true? No, does it make those who don't believe what I believe less wrong? No.

True humility, and true "Christ"like behavior, would (in my opinion) be to be accepting of each woman, and her choice. To understand it, and love her through it, whatever the choice she made was. True humility is being able to remove yourself, and your ego from a situation that has absolutely nothing to do with you, and keep your judgements to yourself. Not because, you are being tolerant of something you don't believe in, but because you are possibly doing more damage to a human soul, by judging them, instead of loving them. It's hard enough to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy. It's a situation that needs to be treated with respect, and reverence that it deserves. It doesn't need to be paraded about as a way for the church to pound away on their bibles, and toot their own horns. It's not for the church to take their opinions and hang it on the necks of women as they leave the clinic. The bible says go you to the far corners of the world and preach the gospel. Not go you unto far corners of the world., beat into submission,judge and scare people into believing this.
Christianity 101 is about saving souls man. SAVING souls. You can't save something by hurting it, by belittling it, by judging it.

Human life is sacred in most religions and death is a part of life, whether it starts in the the womb or it comes at the end of a life fully lived it's still death, and it has to happen.

I don't know why you even brought that up.

That would be because I'm not arguing, I am aware you are incapable of understanding my argument having been around this block before with people like you.

So yeah... I do understand your stance. I just have no desire to understand it any further because I think your consideration of a half-formed clump of DNA to be superior to an actual woman is sick.

You are a bad man and I would rather debate with a pedophile.

Ouchie. Facepalm* Oi Vey.....

You know how seriously I take people.

:yeah:

Haha yea I do..

(Helpful hint word your insults better...... Not that I don't appreciate blunt. Save that **** for plug, where you know half the staff ain't gonna ban you. ;) They gotta mod if you sling mud on the board.)

Like my mother always said "If you don't have anything nice to say....."



Fortunately for you I rarely listened to my mother. ;)

Just a little good-natured jesting because we disagree with eachother and I have no desire to have a lengthy debate with someone who truly, and I say this with respect, cannot understand my point of view.

Arguments like this are a waste of time. Especially if I'm being approached with hostility.

Although I'll agree that I may be the only person laughing.

Oh no I laughed. :laughing:

I just was being mom like.

Ha! Now, you have great day sweetie, you need some money for drugs, and Satan worship?

You called?

Sums up my views pretty well.

Tristesse strikes again!!

But, what about the hookers? :( YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME AND I HATE YOU AND I WISH I WAS NEVER BORN!

Thumbs up for discreet abortion jokes....

I would love to take this further but I've done a good job of not being banned so far.

Roxy your response to Wpn was awesome, i think you might be one of the most logical females ive ever met.

i especially liked the part you said about humanizing god, that is so true, are they even aware they do that? they have made god into an ignorant biggot as if god had pitiful insecurities like us.

but i don't wanna bring religion to this, i just wanted to say i agree with your views on religion. :)

:o: Thanks honey bunch. What's that women can't be pastors? Eat my shorts.
Any time you want to talk about God, feel free to start a thread, or point me in the direction of the right thread and I'll go ten rounds with you. :D

Please don't.

MOVE YOUR NOSE, Fred!

I kidd you not here in PR we have a lesbo congregation called 'Las ovejas del otro rebaño' which means 'The sheeps from the other herd'

it's a gay church.

i wonder what their views on abortion are..

The bible doesn't explicitly condemn abortion persay, you can tear a page out and hear it how you want it. A lot of Christians do turn to the Bible for their morals and many do consider abortion to be a moral wrong, but there's also a good portion of Christians that take the other view. The Bible does value life highly, but a great deal of the discussion on abortion is defining life, so it can be construed either way depending on how you feel about a fetus's stance as a human. Look at Gallup polls and you'll see that 38 percent of Catholics were pro choice and other Christians in a margin of 33 percent as of 2012. So come off it when you try to encompass Christianity's views as one singular stance, it's a divisive issue so there's division even where you'd least expect it.

EDIT: Source: Gallup: Nonreligious Are Least 'Pro-Life'

Pro-choice. If a parent isn't ready for or capable of raising children, then they shouldn't be forced to, for the child's sake and for future society's sake when the fatherless, uneducated children with low socioeconomic background become criminals.

Ummm...............

Points earned from pro choice statement have been neutralized by your final statement. Not saying your opinion is wrong. I am a little taken a back by the thought that all people from low income broken homes are suddenly criminals.

Some of them go on to become doctors,lawyers, and good people that wear suits.... Just throwing that out there.

Points off for thinking all Doctors and Lawyers have to wear suits.

points off for assuming I meant it was them in suits. Criminals wear suits to court. Or at least they should.

I didn't say that, nor do I believe it! I come from a low socioeconomic background and I am a published scientist.

There you have it! DO YOU WEAR A SUIT?