I don't even get why you think that is necessary.

Well if you're going to kill your kid, you should only be allowed to do it once. That's just my philosophy.

You don't know their circumstances. Also you make it seem like having an abortion is just an easy peasy thing. It is a heavy and hard decision to make. Also just because someone has an abortion doesn't mean they shouldn't ever be able to procreate because of that one instance. They might be in a better place in life later on to have kids.

Oh, please do tell me about the difficulties of abortion.

See, to me the "better place in life" thing doesn't work. Where are you in life that it's so bad that it's okay to kill your fetus instead of giving birth to it, and giving it a chance to live it's life, even if it's in an adopted family, or living in poverty? I don't really get that, and I'm trying as hard as I can to think about it from as many perspectives as I can.

As for being able to procreate, I don't think you should be able to, because you're essentially proving your worth as a parent. Morally, what's the difference between killing a fetus and killing your kid when he's developed senses and is actually considered a human being?

So because you don't really get something. You think it is okay to intrude on someone's life and the decisions they make. This is the same thing that old men in congress do think they can make decisions for what women should and shouldn't be able to do with their vagina and that is ****ed up.

There is a big difference between killing a fetus and a kid morally. They are in no way similar.

I have similar thoughts to this about abortion, adoption and the child's parental issues. Children who don't know their biological parents is far from being the only serious parental issues to have. I don't understand how that's a substantial reason as to why a woman should get an abortion.

If it was some serious deformity or some severe case of Neurofibromatosis then I can somewhat understand.

(perhaps the "caring" statement was a little off.)

I don't get a lot of things. Murder, rape, the pain you go throw during child birth... Not being able to be a viable parent and aborting your fetus is pretty far down on the list, but yeah, I kind do think that's pretty senseless.

I'm not making a choice with a woman's vagina, the woman is making a choice with someone else's life, whether they have the capacity to think or not, they're still a living entity, and a human being at that.

How so? Morally, they're both living human beings, one just hasn't developed, and for some reason is seen as "ok" to kill.

I'm just being a devil's advocate because I see both sides of the argument, and I think that people are entirely too sure of their opinions on this particular issue. On the other side of the coin, the fetus doesn't have senses, so it would never even know the concept of existence, and it could be seen as "mercy" if the parent couldn't be an adequate provider, or as you said, if it had some sort of birth defect or if it potentially endangered the mother's life.

I actually support the right to choose, mainly because it could potentially endanger a mother's life, and because the fetus hasn't developed senses, so it isn't like killing an infant that can feel pain, and has experienced life.

I'm also pro-choice, they have a right to that decision and I respect that. Biologically, medically and circumstantially I can see how it can be problematic. It's a different issue setting in stone the kid's future mentalities and its conclusions they may develop, and halting it for that reason. I'm not exactly against it, just unconvinced.

It also doesn't seem much different from saying "My parents were abusive, I should have been aborted."

Yeah, there's a lot of that. "The child could become an important scientist", which is true, but the mother could also die, or the kid could be put into a home where the dad abuses it, and they spend the rest of their life getting "revenge" on their father by killing innocent people. There's a bunch of theoretical stuff you can get into at that point, and some of it being more thought out than "the child could become an important scientist".

Right, and those who understand "the concept of existence" i.e. doctors should endeavor to save life not abort it.

i support abortion and i think the best case for abortion is the fact that it can and will be done regardless if its legal so makin it legal will let ppl do it safely and also save several coat hangers

I think mandatory abortion or sterilization has to be implemented.

Sooner or later. Or, we're all doomed.
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lol, but seriously. 2 kids for every coupling.

Good luck with that.

I held off posting in this thread for a long time but my mind's in the right place so I may as well.

I'm appalled to think that some people (especially men, or any person without the necessary equipment, or without a lifetime's worth of the media oversexualizing their body parts, telling them they're worth nothing more than to be a breeding cow, telling them to be ashamed of the things their body does (i.e.; menstruation)) think it's acceptable to put laws in place that dictate what a woman can and cannot do with her body.

Unplanned pregnancies are accidents that happen. Not everyone wants children; those who don't want them will take every necessary precaution to prevent pregnancy. But sometimes, unfortunate things happen, and abortion should always be an option. Sometimes women are sexually assaulted. It's not her fault. It is never her fault. Why should she have to be forced to carry a child to full term, that will only remind her of that traumatic experience, for the rest of her life? And if a woman is pregnant, because she wanted a child, but the birth of this child could take her life (and take a mother away from a child), she should have that right (though it may be emotionally difficult for her) to terminate that pregnancy.

Children are not an accessory. They're not a necessity. They're not a commodity. Women are more than their reproductive organs. Women have value beyond those organs. People don't seem to understand this. People don't seem to be aware of the tragic rates of child abuse (sometimes resulting in murder), child neglect/abandonment, overpopulation of both the human race and foster homes/orphanages. Children didn't choose to come into a world where they couldn't be taken care of. But in many places, women don't have a choice to spare a child from a lifetime of pain. The government is so fast to protect an indistinguishable cluster of tissues and cells, but they don't care what happens to it after it's out of the womb. They don't care what happens to that woman after that child is born. They don't care if she dies, or commits suicide because she was either too sick or unprepared for childbirth. Just as long as that thing comes out of there.

The way I see it, a person who is pro-life is anti-woman. A person who says that a woman has no right to choose what happens to her own body is a person who does not respect women.

Too many women are dying from "backalley abortions". Not like the government cares about us, but it's tragic. No woman should have to die, or bleed to death just because she wants to have control over her own body.

If mandatory sterilization for men became a thing, you'd bet your ass men would be in an uproar.

I was one that wished I could be sterilized, before the seed spread. 'Last of the family line.'
Both parents mental / chemical problems, all FOUR grandparents, same...

So, there goes that theory. I was jobless, moneyless, homeless. So...


That was a while back, now. Too late now.
You ****ers are stuck with my prodigy. Muhuhahhahaha.
And, I'm teaching them to think for themselves! AAhahaha!
Little bombthrowers.



*s*

BTW: We own a home now and are in your suburbs.

I'm dying waiting for the day when it'll be easy for me to be sterilized. I've wanted the operation since I was just a little girl. But so few doctors will do it, because, well, they think women are fickle and unable to think for themselves, and furthermore they just see us as livestock, meant to breed more to feed the machine.

But the very moment that opportunity opens, I'll be damn sure that all this useless junk is taken out/tied up.

Shouldn't it be free?

That's what I always thought.
Do a psychiatric evaluation, then, do us all a favor.

Of course, now I have kids, things change.

And I have to protect, prepare them for this ****world we live in. In the most rainbow and unicorn way I possibly can.
I mean, believe it or not, I love the little beasts. They surprise me with stuff every day. Really the only reason I'm still here.

P.S. I don't tell them that.

I couldn't possibly care less about society at large, in that respect; I'll do it to benefit myself with peace of mind.

Don't let your kids grow up to be self-righteous douchenuggets, please.

I'm trying my best.


But, when people say that, "I tried my best!"
It's always a cop out. You could've tried harder.

All I have to say is, if you can't take care of yourself, don't have kids.
BUT, kids sometimes happen. 'Miracle children'...a euphemism.

Poor little buggers, I....welll, you don't know the whole backstory.
But, their mother actually takes very good care of them, and, when I'm mentally balanced. Had a good night's rest, I come out and read to them, hug them,. I mean, I'm a good dad. I would gladly lay down my life for them. But I have these moments, when I just lock the door and stay away because I'll start babbling about my 'glory days' and all these wild adventures I used to have. They don't need to hear all that.


I used to wake up and my dad would be passed out hand reaching to lock the front door, piss all over the floor.
Been locked out of my own house at 6 years old, etc. Laid crying in the street hoping a car would run overme.
Stitches. Etc.

So, hopefully, every generation gets better.
I was stone cold sober for 3 years, then 1 year, before that, etc.
Now....just a bad jag.

Blah blah, try and make an intoxicated person stop talking, right?

lol



The thread was about....?

I said originally pro life, but I guess I really dont care either way.

I think it's pretty ****ed up to be pro-life. As in... I legitimately think it makes you a bad person.

My logic, which most people will probably disagree with and not understand, even those who are pro-choice, is that if something can't live outside of a woman's body, it is not a human being, and therefore, killing it is just like killing an unwanted animal. That's right, fetuses are irrelevant things that barely count as creatures. They're just some half-formed genetic material.

Stop trying to control other people's bodies, you *******s. Let them be rid of parasites they don't want, and maybe think about your misguided views a bit more carefully next time you're eating chicken eggs.

:laughing:
I love it when people say things that I don't have the courage to say.

On the other hand I do sympathize with any parent who feels biologically compelled to give birth no matter what, for whatever reason. I can see wanting to keep a child even if I couldn't afford it financially, etc. It's a personal decision.

But I wish that pro-abortion was a politically legitimate term, because that's what I am. It's not about choice versus life. It's about legal abortion versus illegal abortion.

If I'm gathering correctly... you personally would prefer fetuses don't get destroyed, but they're gonna be, because they're not always wanted, so best it be done safely?

I respect that opinion. I also disagree with it, as a cynic, as I find abortions to be an excellent form of population control, in addition to being what should be an accepted right of every female.

No, not really. I would personally rather see less children born than more. That's why I say I'm pro-abortion. But I wouldn't call a mother who wants to keep her child a bad person.

I'd say there's a difference between a mother who wants to keep her child, and a mother who thinks all women should be forced to incubate fetuses, though. The former is definitely not on my sh!t list.

I'm pretty sure we're full on agreeing here.

Amen brotha

I hope you two don't mean to say that's the main reason you're pro-choice, because abortion is an abysmal solution to overpopulation. It's considerably more effective to just not get pregnant in the first place. lol All of these are 10000x more effective at that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(medicine)
birth-control
and self-control can be used to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

I don't mean to insult you, but seriously, that was some terrible logic and reasoning.

Obviously I'm talking about when people **** up and accidentally get pregnant.
And from what I understand, abortion is 100% effective.

This.

You know what's an excellent form of population control? Wars, disease and famine.

Abortions are just a last resort type of thing.

I do not think that anyone does an abortion with a lite heart anyway? You really can not blame anyone without knowing the exact circumstances.

This is true....

I don't get it why WPN, keeps coming into to debate this topic.

Brother you are out numbered in the freakin poll.....

Don't take my comment so hard. I just think you have an uber narrow, judgmental, fanatical, and juvenile opinion on abortion. Don't make you a bad person.

EDIT: Exactly what friends would the majority, cough* majority be losing? We are all pro-choice remember.....

I've yet to hear an even slightly persuasive argument as to why people shouldn't be allowed to have abortions.

Maybe I'm too young to be throwing my two cents in here, but I'm in the age range who are most affected by this decision. It all depends on one thing: At what point does the baby become its own human being? If you believe the answer is upon birth, then abortion is fine. If, however, you believe the baby becomes its own human being at some point before birth, it is wrong.
Having said that, I'm pro-life. Simply because I came very close to being aborted, and however rough the early years were, I'm still glad I'm alive. So is my mother.

One thing all of our mothers have in common is that they gave birth to children who now have access to computers and are able to type. Yay for life.

edit: I forgot to say... Belay all Judeo-Christian values regarding human life. They will certainly kill all of we Earth surface dwellers sooner than later.

I think the most important thing is as was mentioned by ladyislingering. By being pro-life, you're saying a woman's body is more valuable as a ****in incubation chamber than she is as a person. Her choice doesn't matter, because her body only matters as per it's ability to give birth. And the scientific experiment inside her body that's not even fully formed, or capable of rational thought, or truly human-like in any way, is considered more valuable than her enjoyment of life.

And that makes you a bad ****in person. Seriously, shame on you, pro-lifers.

Honestly, I don't even care when the thing is considered a person. If it can't live outside the womb, terminating it isn't murder, it's surgery to remove a parasite before it gets worse.

Does anyone think the father should have a say in the decision? Haven't seen that mentioned yet.

Depends!

If you can abort it then it's not a person. If it's not a person then I guess it's technically property until it develops into one. And since it's inhabiting the woman it stands to reason that it's her property. So no. He shouldn't.