Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

RoxyRollah · 02-01-2014, 02:01 PM

First off, I am not sorry, because it was the greatest thing I have ever done...
Also the hardest...Being Pro Life is really fine and dandy, ( Honestly...It's humane)
And its easy to say give the baby up for adoption. ...But until you carry someone with you and have a completely symbiotic relationship with them. You will never know the other side of that coin, which comes complete feelings , of depression , add postpartum depression, on top of regular depression, mix in feelings of being the worst mother ever, and top it off with thoughts of suicide and you have a dangerous cocktail..

Then there is raise the baby you made it philosophy. .Really. ...Growin up neglected is proven to be psychologically worse then being beaten, or over protected....I would rather hear that women , who know it wasn't for them for whatever reason, decided to abort then give birth to, and neglect a child...A CHILD not a zygote. ... Both abortion and adoption are hard things to get over...But really it is a black and white choice for the woman...Do I do it or not....I am not talking outside influences I am talking instinct. ..Instinct told me no thank you not my style. ..But I am hard wired that way other women however are not...And the freedom to choose their path through life is their right. No matter how much you disagree with it ultimately ask yourself are you planning on raising , loving, and providing, for the baby that is about to be aborted. ..No? oh ok..

Burning Down · 02-02-2014, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpnfire

Well, I'm sorry you had to go through that, and I'm never claiming that I know what you, or other people go through when they consider having an abortion.

I just don't think any person has the right to decide whether an unborn human being lives or dies.

In the United States, I don't think the Supreme Court made the right decision interpreting the law to say that a woman has the right to her body, and therefore has the right to terminate her pregnancy. The result of that case was inferred from a law, and 3 current Supreme Court Justices feel it was 110% the wrong decision, including the Chief Justice John Roberts, and still a few more are uncertain about the issue.

I studied political science research methods in college, and I've seen the polls done by the National Election Survey, and there are dozens of questions about abortion, and none of them are yes or no questions. This is fact. There is a great divide among US citizens about abortion.

The answers to "stance on: abortion" are always on a scale with four options:

"Completely against abortion in all circumstances."
"Against abortion unless the mother's life is threatened."
"Against abortion unless in the case of rape, the mother's life is threatened, etc..."
"Favor a woman's right to choose."
(and then there's "Uncertain")

I've also seen some polls that have more than that.

I don't know... I think a woman should have the right to do whatever she pleases. But here, you're saying that nobody should have the right to make the decision on whether a woman gets an abortion or not, but you contradict yourself in the first statement you made:

Quote:

Abortion is not as simple an issue as yes or no. I'm vehemently opposed to abortion, but even I understand that there are circumstances where it may be appropriate, such as rape.

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying here, but what makes you have the right to say women shouldn't get abortions? Especially when you later said nobody should have a right to say anything.

Wpnfire · 02-02-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

I don't know... I think a woman should have the right to do whatever she pleases. But here, you're saying that nobody should have the right to make the decision on whether a woman gets an abortion or not, but you contradict yourself in the first statement you made:

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying here, but what makes you have the right to say women shouldn't get abortions? Especially when you later said nobody should have a right to say anything.

In my first post, when I said it's not as simple as yes or no, I was referring to the options for the poll on this thread of pro-life and pro-choice. That is a terrible poll. I understand this is an online forum, but it still drives me crazy because of its inaccuracy.

As far as me contradicting myself with the whole Roe v. Wade thing, what I really meant to say was that I think the SCOTUS should make abortion illegal in all circumstances except in extreme cases where the mother's life is threatened or something like that (I'm going to be honest though, I don't know how the application of that would work in real life.) Sorry for the confusion, this issue is obviously complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

First off, I am not sorry, because it was the greatest thing I have ever done...
Also the hardest...Being Pro Life is really fine and dandy, ( Honestly...It's humane)
And its easy to say give the baby up for adoption. ...But until you carry someone with you and have a completely symbiotic relationship with them. You will never know the other side of that coin, which comes complete feelings , of depression , add postpartum depression, on top of regular depression, mix in feelings of being the worst mother ever, and top it off with thoughts of suicide and you have a dangerous cocktail..

Then there is raise the baby you made it philosophy. .Really. ...Growin up neglected is proven to be psychologically worse then being beaten, or over protected....I would rather hear that women , who know it wasn't for them for whatever reason, decided to abort then give birth to, and neglect a child...A CHILD not a zygote. ... Both abortion and adoption are hard things to get over...But really it is a black and white choice for the woman...Do I do it or not....I am not talking outside influences I am talking instinct. ..Instinct told me no thank you not my style. ..But I am hard wired that way other women however are not...And the freedom to choose their path through life is their right. No matter how much you disagree with it ultimately ask yourself are you planning on raising , loving, and providing, for the baby that is about to be aborted. ..No? oh ok..

Still not your call. If you go out and kill someone, it's illegal. Doesn't matter what your "frame of mind" was at the time. If the defense argues in court you were depressed at the time you killed someone, fine, you're still going to jail. The only reason that argument works is because the law (obviously) is on the side of the mother. I don't care what you're frame of mind is, it's not up to you. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Unless you as a mother are in perilous danger by having the child, I don't care what your frame of mind is.

And who's going to say that an aborted child would not have grown up and found a cure for AIDS or for cancer? I know there's a flip-side for that situation, but in reality, we're not all murders and most people are good.

Burning Down · 02-02-2014, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpnfire

In my first post, when I said it's not as simple as yes or no, I was referring to the options for the poll on this thread of pro-life and pro-choice. That is a terrible poll. I understand this is an online forum, but it still drives me crazy because of its inaccuracy.

As far as me contradicting myself with the whole Roe v. Wade thing, what I really meant to say was that I think the SCOTUS should make abortion illegal in all circumstances except in extreme cases where the mother's life is threatened or something like that (I'm going to be honest though, I don't know how the application of that would work in real life.) Sorry for the confusion, this issue is obviously complicated.

The poll is terrible, I know. I think that it was just made like that in order to get a general consensus on the topic.

For sure, it's a complicated and heated issue. But, the problem with making abortions illegal is that women who want abortions are going to seek out unsafe, back alley kind of procedures like what happens in poor Third World countries or other countries where they are illegal. The risks of infection and death for the woman would be unbelievably high, and there could be a chance that the person performing the procedure could catch something from the patient if they can't use the proper equipment. Also there will always be doctors or nurses willing to perform abortions under the table, away from the prying eyes of the authorities, like in "The Cider House Rules". Now you have people risking their careers, reputations, and possibly their lives in order to give a woman what she wants.

People can be as anti-abortion as they want, to whatever degree, but that is not going to make abortions go away. Making things illegal doesn't make them disappear, like hard drugs for example. Abortions are still going to be performed regardless of legal status, so why not offer a safe and sanitary environment instead of forcing women to go underground and find shady abortionists on the black market or something?

How do you feel about birth control or sterilization procedures like tubal ligation, vasectomies, or even full hysterectomies? I always find many pro life people are strongly against these as well.

Wpnfire · 02-02-2014, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

But, the problem with making abortions illegal is that women who want abortions are going to seek out unsafe, back alley kind of procedures like what happens in poor Third World countries or other countries where they are illegal

Ah, you have found the real issue here...and I have no idea what to do about that...except pray for the women that are contemplating doing something like that. That's really out of society's hands at that point, and it's not something that will go away I agree.

Quote:

How do you feel about birth control or sterilization procedures like tubal ligation, vasectomies, or even full hysterectomies? I always find many pro life people are strongly against these as well.

Yeah I don't care about any of those. I'm not Catholic. You don't want to have children, fine by me. You just can't kill an unborn child because those any of things didn't work "as advertised" though...

RoxyRollah · 02-02-2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Still not your call. If you go out and kill someone, it's illegal. Doesn't matter what your "frame of mind" was at the time. If the defense argues in court you were depressed at the time you killed someone, fine, you're still going to jail. The only reason that argument works is because the law (obviously) is on the side of the mother. I don't care what you're frame of mind is, it's not up to you. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Unless you as a mother are in perilous danger by having the child, I don't care what your frame of mind is.

And who's going to say that an aborted child would not have grown up and found a cure for AIDS or for cancer? I know there's a flip-side for that situation, but in reality, we're not all murders and most people are good.

Wow that is a fine looking high horse you got there my friend, where did you get it? Are you male? I need to ask before I respond properly...

Burning Down · 02-02-2014, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpnfire

Ah, you have found the real issue here...and I have no idea what to do about that...except pray for the women that are contemplating doing something like that. That's really out of society's hands at that point, and it's not something that will go away I agree.

Praying doesn't accomplish anything - it never has and it never will. You can pray to all the deities of the world and beyond and it's not going to make some woman rethink her decision, sorry. If a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy on her own terms, that's her prerogative. And it should be done in a safe and comfortable environment. That's all I'm really saying here.

RoxyRollah · 02-03-2014, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Still not your call. If you go out and kill someone, it's illegal. Doesn't matter what your "frame of mind" was at the time. If the defense argues in court you were depressed at the time you killed someone, fine, you're still going to jail. The only reason that argument works is because the law (obviously) is on the side of the mother. I don't care what you're frame of mind is, it's not up to you. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Unless you as a mother are in perilous danger by having the child, I don't care what your frame of mind is.

And who's going to say that an aborted child would not have grown up and found a cure for AIDS or for cancer? I know there's a flip-side for that situation, but in reality, we're not all murders and most people are good.

First off, the frame of mind described above, is the frame of mind that can happen to women on AFTER THEY GIVE BIRTH... Postpartum depression comes after you have the baby...So it isn't a contributing factor to abortion.... So your murder argument just flew right out the window... There is a difference between, sneaking in a child's room after you give birth to them and smothering them in their sleep, and terminating a zygote something with no higher brain function...Next!

Umm so you are saying that I have no say what goes on inside my body unless my life is in danger? You're kidding right? Well let me move off the operating table, so you can lay down... Should I come to you and consult you every time I need something looked at, fixed, or taken care of?? I would hope your answer is no of course not... If that is the case then why should I ask your opinion on abortion...

I don't know the child would cure some veritable bevy of diseases but you don't know that they will... They could grow up to become Ted Bundy 2.0, or Xan Zul the soul destroyer... One simply never knows...

Other peoples actions in the most private of circumstances, is frankly none of your goddamn business... That is a very very personal thing you sticking your moral nose in.. Morals my friend are personal, tailored to the wearer, not the sales man... You feel me? Meaning, my morals are mine, and just because you are trying to sell me on the fact that I am killing a child, doesn't make it gospel...Your stance, no matter how flowery, hopeful, and bright, won't change the reality of my circumstance, if it is a severe one.. I told you I am pro choice, but it wasn't my choice to abort. I chose to adopt my daughter out.. And I would do it again in a heart beat and nothing will ever change that... But, I can't in good conscience, take away another woman's right to the same choice I had... That is a personal thing again I can't stress that enough, and it needs to be treated delicately, with reverence, and deep compilation... And the only person that can do all that is the potential mother...

Forward To Death · 02-09-2014, 11:18 PM

In a perfect world, every abortion would come with a complimentary tubectomy.

Rjinn · 02-09-2014, 11:35 PM

I'm personally against it but pro-choice at the same time.

It'll never happen to me unless I wanted it to, so I don't really care.

View Poll Results: ?
Pro-Choice?	66	84.62%
Pro-Life	7	8.97%
Prefer Not To Choose	5	6.41%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

02-09-2014, 11:35 PM	#200 (permalink)
Rjinn The Aerosol in your Soul Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New South Wales, Australia Posts: 1,546	I'm personally against it but pro-choice at the same time. It'll never happen to me unless I wanted it to, so I don't really care. __________________ last.fm

02-09-2014, 11:18 PM	#199 (permalink)
Forward To Death Trolier Than Thou Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,336	In a perfect world, every abortion would come with a complimentary tubectomy.