Sam Harris, "New Atheists", and Islamophobia

CanwllCorfe · 04-03-2013, 09:08 PM

Through Twitter and Facebook, I've found a man by the name of Glenn Greenwald, as well as others mentioned in his article, have said that Sam Harris, as well as other new Atheists to some degree, have a preoccupation with singling out and criticizing Islam as a particularly dangerous religion. What do you chaps think? I actually agree with Sam Harris. Christians, I feel, used to be very dangerous when they had the power to be, but have thankfully lost that power. Nowadays I honestly don't see any other religion as being equally dangerous.

Glenn Greenwald's article, which contains links to other articles that back up his position.

Sam Harris' article

Stephen · 04-03-2013, 09:31 PM

I think there are kooks in every religion. Islam is probably just an easy target to polarise an audience and get some cheap publicity. As for new atheists they often seem to be just as fanatical as the religions they criticise.

**Janszoon** · 04-03-2013, 09:39 PM

That's funny, usually they get criticized for singling out Christianity.

WWWP · 04-03-2013, 09:40 PM

My problem with Sam Harris is that he tends to grossly overgeneralize and then respond to articles written against him by constantly accusing the authors of "cherry-picking." I respect and tend to agree with Harris in most areas (excluding his views on military action in the Middle East and gun control most notably) but I think that he is certainly guilty of repeatedly making comments vague enough about "those people" which a lot of people understandably take to mean "all Muslims," which is both dangerous and irresponsible.

I absolutely agree with the "new atheist" movement inasmuch as I do think that organized religion is a dangerous and unnecessary evil. Religion is obviously very complex both socially and psychologically, and I don't mean to imply that all religious people are dangerous or that all churches cause direct harm or anything of the sort. But I do believe religion is something that should and eventually will be eradicated.

In regards to why the "new atheists" all seem at some degree Islamaphobic I think can be attributed to the fact that the key players all wrote books and rose to fame shortly after the attacks of 9/11. Whether the act actually swayed their opinions enough for them to assert that Islam is a more dangerous religion than any other or not, I'm not sure. But it makes sense that the violent tendencies of the religion would be a big part of what they're talking about right now.

This is an article we discussed at a recent Atheists and Skeptics Club meeting at my college that I think you'd enjoy, Tim.
Scientific racism, militarism, and the new atheists - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

Stephen · 04-03-2013, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon

But I do believe religion is something that should and eventually will be eradicated.

I'm not so sure that it will be possible to 'eradicate' it. I think mystical thinking is probably an inherent human trait that has arisen long before any organised religion.

WWWP · 04-03-2013, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stp

I'm not so sure that it will be possible to 'eradicate' it. I think mystical thinking is probably an inherent human trait that has arisen long before any organised religion.

I disagree but that is a common conclusion.

Rjinn · 04-03-2013, 10:13 PM

It's not the actual religion of Islam that's dangerous at all. It's in the misunderstanding of tradition and the impression of fanatics. Usually people will mix up let's say, how women are treated. For example what they're expected to wear. But nowhere in the Quran states women have to wear veils or full body dresses, and treat women like second class rubbish. That's the norm of culture in most cases, not religion.

Same could be said for Christianity.

WWWP · 04-03-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinn

But nowhere in the Quran states women have to wear veils or full body dresses, and treat women like second class rubbish.

Weelllllllllll..........

On clothing:
Qua'ran 24:31

Quote:

And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

Qua'ran 33:59

Quote:

O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments.

Wife beating:
Qua'ran 4:34

Quote:

But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them.

Sex with young girls:
Qua'ran 65:4

Quote:

And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated.

And from Sahih al-Bukhari:

Women are deficient in intelligence
Vol. 2, Book 24, No. 541:

Quote:

"O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.

Vol. 3, Book 48, No. 826

Quote:

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

Stephen · 04-03-2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon

I disagree but that is a common conclusion.

I mean I'm not saying that organised religions are an essential part of human society, just that an inherent mysticism leaves societies vulnerable to exploitation. Religions themselves are generally more sanctioned political entities and will always rise and fall.

WWWP · 04-03-2013, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stp

I mean I'm not saying that organised religions are an essential part of human society, just that an inherent mysticism leaves societies vulnerable to exploitation. Religions themselves are generally more sanctioned political entities and will always rise and fall.

Yeah I understand what you're saying but I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as an inherent mysticism involved in any sentient life. There's a really good book on this topic and the author holds your view though, you might be interesting in reading it. He essentially is of the view that we would not have been able to evolve culturally without that mysticism. It's really well researched and finely written - fully enjoyed it personally I just don't agree with the author.

04-03-2013, 09:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	Sam Harris, "New Atheists", and Islamophobia Through Twitter and Facebook, I've found a man by the name of Glenn Greenwald, as well as others mentioned in his article, have said that Sam Harris, as well as other new Atheists to some degree, have a preoccupation with singling out and criticizing Islam as a particularly dangerous religion. What do you chaps think? I actually agree with Sam Harris. Christians, I feel, used to be very dangerous when they had the power to be, but have thankfully lost that power. Nowadays I honestly don't see any other religion as being equally dangerous. Glenn Greenwald's article, which contains links to other articles that back up his position. Sam Harris' article __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind. Last edited by CanwllCorfe; 04-03-2013 at 09:25 PM.

04-03-2013, 09:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	That's funny, usually they get criticized for singling out Christianity. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

04-03-2013, 10:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Rjinn The Aerosol in your Soul Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New South Wales, Australia Posts: 1,546	It's not the actual religion of Islam that's dangerous at all. It's in the misunderstanding of tradition and the impression of fanatics. Usually people will mix up let's say, how women are treated. For example what they're expected to wear. But nowhere in the Quran states women have to wear veils or full body dresses, and treat women like second class rubbish. That's the norm of culture in most cases, not religion. Same could be said for Christianity. __________________ last.fm

04-03-2013, 09:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stephen I sleep in your hat Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Melbourne, Vic. Aus. Posts: 1,847	I think there are kooks in every religion. Islam is probably just an easy target to polarise an audience and get some cheap publicity. As for new atheists they often seem to be just as fanatical as the religions they criticise.