What pisses me off most about science

The Batlord · 02-28-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

Fostering cooperation? WTF I don't see it as being cooperative in any sense its more about looking at it as just money. I do good things for people because sometimes people need good things to be done for them, not because I gain anything from it. What do I gain from giving someone money that I will never see again? My mother actually didn't take care of me for 18 years I lived with my father as a kid.

You're not looking at the big picture. If you didn't feel the need to do good things for your mother, then it would hurt the mother/child relationship between you. And if everyone likewise didn't feel the need to do good things for their mother then the whole concept of a mother/child relationship would suffer. Since human beings are formed (physically, mentally, and emotionally) by their parents and their relationships with them, a breakdown in these relationships would be catastrophic to the survival of the human race. So, doing good things for your mother is not only about your own self interest, but the self interest of the human race in general. Which is why we evolved this way in the first place, because it's just pragmatic.

**Janszoon** · 02-28-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Read "To Build a Fire" by Jack London and then tell me impartiality is a good thing lol

I did read that a long time ago but don't remember it well enough to know what you're talking about. Maybe you should just explain what you mean by impartiality because to me a lack bias is generally a good thing.

midnight rain · 02-28-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

Thats a good point. Why does there have to be some underlying motive to being a caring person that does good things for people.

Because there's always a motive for every action, be it instictively based or experience based. We're not a blank slate of endless choices, everything that has happened to us factors into how we act in the future

The Batlord · 02-28-2013, 11:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Bane of your existence

The debate is over whether or not that can be considered correlative. You can't say that people are necessarily not altruistic because they feel good when they act altruistically.

I'm not saying that people aren't altruistic. I'm saying that the concept of altruism is something that evolution programmed us into believing in. The reason we do things is pragmatic concern. Our belief in goodness and altruism is just our way to justify this pragmatic concern.

FRED HALE SR. · 02-28-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Because there's always a motive for every action, be it instictively based or experience based. We're not a blank slate of endless choices, everything that has happened to us factors into how we act in the future

So someone whos family is murdered by a serial killer becomes a serial killer? Because I lived with my dad almost my entire childhood, factors into why I do nice things for my Mother? I think you're reading too much into motive when there are simply things people do because they want to do it with no underlying motive whatsoever.

midnight rain · 02-28-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I did read that a long time ago but don't remember it well enough to know what you're talking about. Maybe you should just explain what you mean by impartiality because to me a lack bias is generally a good thing.

Not so much playing favorites as generally how inescapable the universe's forces are that going into shape who we are, and how little control we have over how our lives play out

Born without limbs? Have fun struggling with depression and ostracization from society during the one life you get.

FRED HALE SR. · 02-28-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Not so much playing favorites as generally how inescapable the universe's forces are that going into shape who we are, and how little control we have over how our lives play out

Born without limbs? Have fun struggling with depression and ostracization from society during the one life you get.

There are people born without limbs that do just fine in society. People struggle with ostracization and depression that have all of their limbs.

midnight rain · 02-28-2013, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

So someone whos family is murdered by a serial killer becomes a serial killer? Because I lived with my dad almost my entire childhood, factors into why I do nice things for my Mother? I think you're reading too much into motive when there are simply things people do because they want to do it with no underlying motive whatsoever.

Uh what? I'm not even sure what you were trying to get across with your serial killer hypothetical. If you were trying to say that I was saying we simply mime everything we see, then no. That's a gross simplification of the process.

The Batlord · 02-28-2013, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

So someone whos family is murdered by a serial killer becomes a serial killer? Because I lived with my dad almost my entire childhood, factors into why I do nice things for my Mother? I think you're reading too much into motive when there are simply things people do because they want to do it with no underlying motive whatsoever.

Is this supposed to be an argument for free will?

**Janszoon** · 02-28-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Not so much playing favorites as generally how inescapable the universe's forces are that going into shape who we are, and how little control we have over how our lives play out

Born without limbs? Have fun struggling with depression and ostracization from society during the one life you get.

Well, life is hard and unfair, I agree with that. But the nice thing about a naturalistic worldview is that you're operating under the assumption that it's nothing personal, unlike a religious worldview where all the horrible, unfair stuff is being deliberately caused by intelligent agents.