Music Banter

Music Banter (https://www.musicbanter.com/)
-   Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/)
-   -   In a universe of infinite space and time, is it possible for something to happen once (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/66378-universe-infinite-space-time-possible-something-happen-once.html)

avanthi 12-04-2012 02:57 AM

hi to all ...:) can any one help me how to build genre classification for music recommendation system ..

Guybrush 12-04-2012 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanthi (Post 1257258)
hi to all ...:) can any one help me how to build genre classification for music recommendation system ..

Boy are you posting in the wrong place.

Anyways, genre classifications have already been done. Just have a look at discogs f.ex : Style Guide-Related Styles Lists - The Unofficial Discogs Wiki

Face 12-04-2012 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1257249)
If in this hypothetical universe there were Laws of Physics that govern it, there would not be an infinite amount possiblities.

There would be if there was an infinite amount of space and time.

Theoretically, all you would need is one hydrogen atom. There are an infinite number of spaces for it to occupy (infinite space) and an infinite number of positions for it to take (infinite time).

So infinite possibilities doesn't necessarily require breaking laws of physics.

blastingas10 12-04-2012 05:16 PM

Is the universe infinite? I would say no. If it was, I would think there would be infinite possibilities here on earth.

midnight rain 12-04-2012 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10 (Post 1257657)
Is the universe infinite? I would say no. If it was, I would think there would be infinite possibilities here on earth.

Why would you think that?

I don't think the Universe is infinite, but it's constantly expanding. Expanding into what, well that's one of the great mysteries!

Franco Pepe Kalle 12-04-2012 05:54 PM

The world will not end. I heard similair BS back in 2000 and we are still continuing to live. It is so stupid. I am tired of these BS lies that the world is going to end. I think we have become insane.

OccultHawk 12-04-2012 08:31 PM

If the universe were I infinitely old we couldn't have ever reached this point because it would have taken forever.

Neapolitan 12-04-2012 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore (Post 1257257)
Many would probably argue that, in a universe of infinite space, time and perhaps one should add infinite matter so that there's a lot going on in that universe, there would have been or will be an infinite amount of Tores who share their thoughts on this topic on a website called musicbanter. I guess given infinity and all, one could argue that not only would there exist an infinite amount of Tores doing this seperated in time, but there would be an infinite amount of Tores doing it at the same time.

But I agree with you Neapolitan that at the core, physical laws dictate the nature of possibilities and ThePhanastasio might agree with me when I think that I am only doing this now. I won't exist millions of years in the future.

Wow we actually agree on something. :)

There is different ways to look at infinity. Take the "line" and a "ray" for instance. A ray proceeds towards infinity in only one direction. A line proceeds towards infinity in two directions.

This universe time flow foward and is like a "ray" (-------->)
where the moment of singularity would be the point in the beginning of the ray representing time.

-------->
Singularity - Big Bang - hyper inflation - annihilation of anti matter - formation of the fundamental force - etc etc - stellar cloud - formation of the solar system - formation of Earth in deep time -- now ---> the future (the Big Rip, The Big Crunch, or Steady State)


Now if time was a "line" and proceeded infinitely in to two directions, where would any of that (the history of the universe) fall on the time line? For that infinite universe to exist it would need everything to exist at one, the Fundamental Forces couldn 't evolve. In such a universe the Big Bang couldn't happen and the Universe wouldn't evolve, it would always have to be in a steady state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore (Post 1257257)
I think an infinite universe could be compared to an infinite sequence of numbers. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc. The number 1 will reappear an infinite amount of times backwards and forwards in the sequence (f.ex in the numbers -124, 315 or 1111), but the exact value of 1 will only appear once. So if you're wondering if 1 will reappear, it will, but it won't be the same 1. ;)

When you say "1 will reappear" what do you mean?
When you are talking about "one" like you said it could the value of one or the symbol of one (1). The value of 1 is unique, while the symbol of one hypothetically can appear an infinite amout of time it the set of Natural Numbers were writen out on I guess infinitely long piece of paper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Face (Post 1257282)
There would be if there was an infinite amount of space and time.

Theoretically, all you would need is one hydrogen atom. There are an infinite number of spaces for it to occupy (infinite space) and an infinite number of positions for it to take (infinite time).

So infinite possibilities doesn't necessarily require breaking laws of physics.

Are you talking about infinite space, or infinite dimensions? Hypothetically space is infinite, think of it as three infinte lines pointing the three different dimensions (X,Y,Z). The matter which fill the space in the universe and the size of the universe is unknown. Scientists don't know how large the universe is beyond the visible edge of universe.

Guybrush 12-05-2012 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1258008)
Wow we actually agree on something. :)

There is different ways to look at infinity. Take the "line" and a "ray" for instance. A ray proceeds towards infinity in only one direction. A line proceeds towards infinity in two directions.

This universe time flow foward and is like a "ray" (-------->)
where the moment of singularity would be the point in the beginning of the ray representing time.

-------->
Singularity - Big Bang - hyper inflation - annihilation of anti matter - formation of the fundamental force - etc etc - stellar cloud - formation of the solar system - formation of Earth in deep time -- now ---> the future (the Big Rip, The Big Crunch, or Steady State)


Now if time was a "line" and proceeded infinitely in to two directions, where would any of that (the history of the universe) fall on the time line? For that infinite universe to exist it would need everything to exist at one, the Fundamental Forces couldn 't evolve. In such a universe the Big Bang couldn't happen and the Universe wouldn't evolve, it would always have to be in a steady state.

I agree that an infinite line could have a starting point, but I don't know how a universe with infinite time and space could. It couldn't be born with a big bang because the singularity I believe is finite and after the bang, space expands from the bang origin. That means a big bang implies a universe finite in space. I'm not an astrophysicist, but that's how I think at least.

But you touch upon an interesting point which I thought of when I first saw this thread. What if the natural occurrence of events is so that you have a universe of matter, then all that matter clumps into black holes which no longer supports life. At this point in time, the possibilities of life are non-existent in the infinite universe. Let's say that because even black holes lose a microscopic amount of radiation, after countless aeons, they eventually shrink into nothing and all the matter in the infinite universe is a haze so thin that gravity can't put it together to form proper matter any more. If this "haze" universe was inevitable and there was absolutely no way for a universe to escape this condition once it was attained, wouldn't that mean that possibilities were only possible for a finite amount of time while most of eternity is spent as a haze universe?

(In this case, there could still be an infinite amount of Tores given infinite space and matter, but only as long as a Tore is a possibility.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1258008)
When you say "1 will reappear" what do you mean?
When you are talking about "one" like you said it could the value of one or the symbol of one (1). The value of 1 is unique, while the symbol of one hypothetically can appear an infinite amout of time it the set of Natural Numbers were writen out on I guess infinitely long piece of paper.

In relation to the story about the different Tores writing on Musicbanter, when I write that 1 will reappear in the sequence of numbers, that's the same as different Tores who write on Musicbanter appearing at different times in the universes history. There could be many such Tores, but only one of them is me. So I think that makes me unique.

Face 12-05-2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1258008)
Are you talking about infinite space, or infinite dimensions? Hypothetically space is infinite, think of it as three infinte lines pointing the three different dimensions (X,Y,Z). The matter which fill the space in the universe and the size of the universe is unknown. Scientists don't know how large the universe is beyond the visible edge of universe.

All my points before, and following are assuming one dimension, infinite dimensions, by default would result in infinite possibilities. But the thing to remember is that something capable of infinite possibilities does not necessarily include everything conceivable.

I was stalking about the what the OP outlined at first. A universe with infinite space and time, not necessarily what we have in our universe. If we take the proposed universe, then all it would take is one (non-decaying) particle to produce an infinite number of possibilities given infinite time and infinite space. Even thoughthere is only one particle, one dimension and all it's doing is changing it's location (if a location can even be assumed in infinite space with one particle...lets just say two so we can have infinite relative positions).

In order for this particle to produce infinite possibilities it cannot be constrained be time, or space (or you can replace time with speed effectively the same thing), at least two of these variables must be infinite for it to theoretically achieve the infinite possibilities.

In our universe, space can be seen to be expanding at an increasing rate, that doesn't mean it is infinite at THIS point in time if you could theoretically freeze time. So for this point in time there are not an infinite positions the particle could take, therefore all other particles are also limited, and an infinite number of possibilities are not possible.

But the entire theory assumes on the concept that particles/energy occupy discreet points and are not infinitely variable. Otherwise there are infinite possibilities of the position of the particle within 1mm, infinite space isn't needed in given that assumption.

But that is only bulletproof if we are still completely separating space and time. Because theoretically (and in actuality) our time is just another dimension of space. One never exists without the other, since they are one of the same (space-time).


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:59 PM.


© 2003-2025 Advameg, Inc.