I take more comfort in atheism

ManWithNoName · 01-07-2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Not believing in magic might be more rational, but there's no law that says that being more rational somehow makes you or the world any happier.

Hit the nail on the head here.

verdi · 01-08-2013, 03:02 AM

I agree. However, it's also true that believing in magic will set higher expectations (or... different expectations). You'll be expecting more from life (in the case of Santa, you'll probably be expecting him to show up with a few presents; in the case of Hogwarts, you'd probably expect to get that letter). If those expectations are met, then it'll be all just as though you lived in a world without magic as a non-believer. If they are not met, then you'll be just as disappointed as you would be if you were disappointed in a world without magic. So, what I'm trying to convey here is that, ultimately, the magical world would become the normal world, and after your childhood years you wouldn't be any happier than you are today. In fact, you probably quickly forgot that Santa didn't exist once you saw you had presents under your tree (or I hope you had some

) anyway.
But I don't disagree with you! Ignorance may very well be bliss in a lot of cases. But then again, some people prefer the bliss of knowledge (totally made that up), or feel that the truth is part of the pathway to happiness (or some **** like that!).

ManWithNoName · 01-08-2013, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verdi

If those expectations are met, then it'll be all just as though you lived in a world without magic as a non-believer.

I don't believe this to be true. Replace the word magic with love. Now let's say you believed in love, craved for love, wanted love, expected love in return and then... fell in love. Perhaps you may have experienced something similar to this? Anyway, when you are in love, and that love is believed to be received back, your brain has so many more endorphins, so much more dopamine released that it actually provides a lot of further noticeable physical relief as well.

The level of happiness that is the norm for someone that believes in and believes they receive love is incredibly higher than those that do not. Now once you have been to Disneyland, why on earth would you want to just ride on the swings for the rest of your life?

Quote:

Originally Posted by verdi

But then again, some people prefer the bliss of knowledge (totally made that up), or feel that the truth is part of the pathway to happiness (or some **** like that!).

Indeed, and if history is anything to go by, our current grasps of knowledge, truth, and free-thinking etc. will be laughed at in 1000 years, just like how many current "free-thinkers" laugh at the freest thoughts of the past millenniums. I believe there is ignorance in putting 100% faith behind anything and that includes science. Indeed science to me by definition is agnostic in that it accepts it can be proven wrong in the future, unlike many so-called scientists I have come across.

There is still a relative subjectiveness in objectivity. It's only a wave or a particle depending on the perceiver...

seekn4 · 01-12-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

No I agree, but I was raised in a Christian family and am most intimately familiar with that religion. I probably should have specified Christianity in the topic, though many other religions seem to have archaic and bigoted beliefs that I'm not cool with either.

Atheism appeals to me not only because I find it logical, but because I don't have to subscribe to indoctrinating beliefs. Maybe I'm just stubborn, but I'm not willing to uncompromisingly put my faith in one book to define who I am and what I believe in.

I just have to say that just because you were raised in a "christian" religion doesn't mean that the denominations interpretation of christianity actually represents true Christianity. If you believe that God is a God of wrath than you have been misinformed. Because that is the opposite of what Jesus taught. I wouldn't belive in God either if that was the case.
However God or the universe will be wrathful to you if that is what you put out. People who are angry tend to attract to them angry people or situations that make them angry. You reap what you sow, karma or whatever you want to call it. If you are a loving person you will encounter loving people or situations. Have you ever been punched in the face by someone you were giving nothing but love to or feeling nothing but love for? I didn't think so, god is love and love has power.

Neapolitan · 01-12-2013, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManWithNoName

I don't believe this to be true. Replace the word magic with love. Now let's say you believed in love, craved for love, wanted love, expected love in return and then... fell in love. Perhaps you may have experienced something similar to this? Anyway, when you are in love, and that love is believed to be received back, your brain has so many more endorphins, so much more dopamine released that it actually provides a lot of further noticeable physical relief as well.

The level of happiness that is the norm for someone that believes in and believes they receive love is incredibly higher than those that do not. Now once you have been to Disneyland, why on earth would you want to just ride on the swings for the rest of your life?

Indeed, and if history is anything to go by, our current grasps of knowledge, truth, and free-thinking etc. will be laughed at in 1000 years, just like how many current "free-thinkers" laugh at the freest thoughts of the past millenniums. I believe there is ignorance in putting 100% faith behind anything and that includes science. Indeed science to me by definition is agnostic in that it accepts it can be proven wrong in the future, unlike many so-called scientists I have come across.

There is still a relative subjectiveness in objectivity. It's only a wave or a particle depending on the perceiver...

I'm sorry I just don't believe that. Think about when you go outside (if you live in the city) do you start laughing? Seriously, do you laugh when you see concrete? Because the Romans had concrete 2000 years ago.

ManWithNoName · 01-13-2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I'm sorry I just don't believe that. Think about when you go outside (if you live in the city) do you start laughing? Seriously, do you laugh when you see concrete? Because the Romans had concrete 2000 years ago.

I mean with regards to the universe and the way of understanding it. No doubt the Romans believed in an earth-centred universe. Even Einstein believed the universe was static, etcetera...

seekn4 · 01-13-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManWithNoName

I mean with regards to the universe and the way of understanding it. No doubt the Romans believed in an earth-centred universe. Even Einstein believed the universe was static, etcetera...

Funny you say that because it has been uncovered that 1000s of years ago they knew the planets revolved around the sun. And later the worldly belief was different. It seems like when people congregate and try to form their own little empire or govt or religion they actually regress in knowledge. And it always seem that the "worldly" perceptions are ALWAYS proved wrong in time of you study history. That kind of makes you want to open your mind up and think for yourself.

Guybrush · 01-13-2013, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

Funny you say that because it has been uncovered that 1000s of years ago they knew the planets revolved around the sun.

It has? Not saying this is incorrect; I'm merely curious. Do you have a link to some source that can back this up?

seekn4 · 01-13-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

It has? Not saying this is incorrect; I'm merely curious. Do you have a link to some source that can back this up?

Hey buddy haven't heard from you in a while, hope all is well. The ancient Egyptians, have carvings in stone that are the exact same model of our solar system that we have today, and it was also written in the ancient Sumerian texts that were translated by Zacharia sitchen, I belive its in his book called "the cosmic code". The Mayans also had that knowlege.

Guybrush · 01-13-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekn4

Hey buddy haven't heard from you in a while, hope all is well. The ancient Egyptians, have carvings in stone that are the exact same model of our solar system that we have today, and it was also written in the ancient Sumerian texts that were translated by Zacharia sitchen, I belive its in his book called "the cosmic code". The Mayans also had that knowlege.

Really? Again, not saying I think it's rubbish, but from just reading your post, how do I know what you claim is true? If it is true, then it should be possible for you to find some credible sources that back up your claims.

You know, links to some articles or something.

01-08-2013, 03:02 AM	#102 (permalink)
verdi Groupie Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 44	I agree. However, it's also true that believing in magic will set higher expectations (or... different expectations). You'll be expecting more from life (in the case of Santa, you'll probably be expecting him to show up with a few presents; in the case of Hogwarts, you'd probably expect to get that letter). If those expectations are met, then it'll be all just as though you lived in a world without magic as a non-believer. If they are not met, then you'll be just as disappointed as you would be if you were disappointed in a world without magic. So, what I'm trying to convey here is that, ultimately, the magical world would become the normal world, and after your childhood years you wouldn't be any happier than you are today. In fact, you probably quickly forgot that Santa didn't exist once you saw you had presents under your tree (or I hope you had some ) anyway. But I don't disagree with you! Ignorance may very well be bliss in a lot of cases. But then again, some people prefer the bliss of knowledge (totally made that up), or feel that the truth is part of the pathway to happiness (or some **** like that!).