The Wild & Wacky World Of The Middle East

Newkie · 11-25-2012, 07:21 AM

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Originally Posted by Face

Well, all their neighbours will definitely end up "scrambled".

Aye aye!

Indeed. The British guy in that video reminds me of about 60% of the people in a political I did in Uni and also reminds me of why I dropped it. It's actually a half decent discussion, but I hate people who can't at least see two sides of a coin. It's the same worldview I had when I was about 12.

Unknown Soldier · 11-25-2012, 07:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Face

Well, all their neighbours will definitely end up "scrambled".

Aye aye!

Maybe the Arabs can poach a few victories!

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Originally Posted by Newkie

Indeed. The British guy in that video reminds me of about 60% of the people in a political I did in Uni and also reminds me of why I dropped it. It's actually a half decent discussion, but I hate people who can't at least see two sides of a coin. It's the same worldview I had when I was about 12.

Yep he's a typical nobhead from uni that has tunnel vision.

Newkie · 11-25-2012, 07:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Maybe the Arabs can poach a few victories!

Enough with the egg and soldiers routine already.

Face · 11-25-2012, 07:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Maybe the Arabs can poach a few victories!

I think everyone involved just needs to get laid.

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Yep he's a typical nobhead from uni that has tunnel vision.

It's more of a backlash from the view we're initially presented with that Israel is the innocent victim suffering against malicious terrorists to the one with the larger military force continuing to take land. But then the pendulum swings too far the other way and suddenly they're thirsty for the blood of babies against the completely innocent palestinians.

Rjinn · 11-25-2012, 11:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

The best point of the whole interview that was only briefly touched upon, is that Hamas had placed their military assets in residential locations, so near where children are based.

I disagree. I think the best point of the story is that the president gave 99.1% of the land to the Israelis.

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Hamas knew what they were doing here and knew would lead to two distinct possibilties 1) Placing these military installations in a residential attack to avoid attack or 2) Placing these military installations in a residential attack to encourage an attack and then when civilian casualties mounted up, they automatically would grab sympathy. Hamas don't give a shit about civilian casualties, they're just means to an end.

More excuses for the Isrealis? I think so. It doesn't give them the right to kill innoccent civilians. Israel doesn't give a **** about Palestinians either.

Gaza is crowded full of residential areas. They couldn't place it away even if they wanted to, nor do they have many spots to place them.

You know uh, I couldn't even assume what their intentions are. I don't know how you can devise plans out of the blue. Please substantiate with some sort of evidence, otherwise there is no point going on with assumptions.

Hitch · 11-25-2012, 11:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

What's the solution? Dismantling the state of Isreal and allowing their people to emigrate to countries where they have family (but not all have family abroad) that would of course bring stability to the area but of course is almost impossible to do. Their only option is to continue securing their own state from agressive neighbours which they've been doing for decades now and as they say, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs!

Oh, no, another diaspora wont happen. Israel is most definitely here to stay (although you have to give them credit for finding one of the very few areas in the region without oil!). The solution broadly agreeable is 2 states based on the 1967 borders. Just that Israel haven't helped at all with the settlers in the west bank.

What I meant was in a hypothetical situation where the expanded territories are given back, the Palestinians are provided with a state of their own with Hamas still continuing their "social services", the mullahs in Iran are still in power, their personal agents in Lebanon, Hezbollah, still thereabouts and the frauds from the muslim brotherhood in Egypt - somehow, I don't think the region will be incident free. They may hate each other and that's fine as long as they mind their own business. Add in a possibly nuclear Iran and the Saudis might find common cause with Israel after all! Interesting times...

Unknown Soldier · 11-25-2012, 02:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Rjinn

I disagree. I think the best point of the story is that the president gave 99.1% of the land to the Israelis.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, but if it's land under Palestinian and Hamas authority then it's far more than 1% and more like 30%!

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More excuses for the Isrealis? I think so. It doesn't give them the right to kill innoccent civilians. Israel doesn't give a **** about Palestinians either.

It's not more excuses for the Isrealis, I've more or less made it clear that I don't much care for either side in the conflict. The only sad thing is that innocents as always take the brunt of the pain and suffering.

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Gaza is crowded full of residential areas. They couldn't place it away even if they wanted to, nor do they have many spots to place them.

When you want a firework display at home, you normally do it in your garden and away from small children and flammables. It you don't have a big enough garden then you go and do it somewhere else more suitable, BUT you don't set the display up in your own house!

There was no reason for Hamas to attack Isreal from their own territory, they could've done it from other regions and other locations, Isreal is used to being attacked from outside territories. Hamas knew exactly what they were doing when they started their attacks.

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You know uh, I couldn't even assume what their intentions are. I don't know how you can devise plans out of the blue. Please substantiate with some sort of evidence, otherwise there is no point going on with assumptions.

If I was going to prepare an academic paper then I would substantiate my assumptions without a shadow of a doubt, in fact nearly anything can be substantiated in some way or another, it just takes time to fish the stuff out. But this is a banter forum based around a decent level of debate there's usually no real need. But what I will say, that if you read between the lines, it's fairly obvious that Hamas are acting under the blessing and support of Iran who are pushing for a much wider conflict in the region, this is my opinion only of course but I know this is easy to substantiate. Hamas cannot compete with Isreal, they need a wider support base and Iran is that support base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Oh, no, another diaspora wont happen. Israel is most definitely here to stay (although you have to give them credit for finding one of the very few areas in the region without oil!). The solution broadly agreeable is 2 states based on the 1967 borders. Just that Israel haven't helped at all with the settlers in the west bank.

What I meant was in a hypothetical situation where the expanded territories are given back, the Palestinians are provided with a state of their own with Hamas still continuing their "social services", the mullahs in Iran are still in power, their personal agents in Lebanon, Hezbollah, still thereabouts and the frauds from the muslim brotherhood in Egypt - somehow, I don't think the region will be incident free. They may hate each other and that's fine as long as they mind their own business. Add in a possibly nuclear Iran and the Saudis might find common cause with Israel after all! Interesting times...

Glad to see that someone seems to share my view and is looking at the conflict in a much broader sense.

Rjinn · 11-25-2012, 08:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, but if it's land under Palestinian and Hamas authority then it's far more than 1% and more like 30%!

It was sarcasm. Anyway, the 30% Israel pretty much have a lot of control over.

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It's not more excuses for the Isrealis, I've more or less made it clear that I don't much care for either side in the conflict. The only sad thing is that innocents as always take the brunt of the pain and suffering.

That's what the current concern is about, civilians. Not Hamas.

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When you want a firework display at home, you normally do it in your garden and away from small children and flammables. It you don't have a big enough garden then you go and do it somewhere else more suitable, BUT you don't set the display up in your own house!

You could easily say that Hamas were being careless, not devising plans in regards to their location.

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There was no reason for Hamas to attack Isreal from their own territory, they could've done it from other regions and other locations, Isreal is used to being attacked from outside territories.Hamas knew exactly what they were doing when they started their attacks.

Israelis knew what they were doing too.

Israelis are used to bombing Gaza without any consideration of civilians. They could of been a little more thoughtful, direct civilians to a safe place and then did their business. Using bombing is not the only option. What they are doing is pretty careless too.

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If I was going to prepare an academic paper then I would substantiate my assumptions without a shadow of a doubt, in fact nearly anything can be substantiated in some way or another, it just takes time to fish the stuff out. But this is a banter forum based around a decent level of debate there's usually no real need. But what I will say, that if you read between the lines, it's fairly obvious that Hamas are acting under the blessing and support of Iran who are pushing for a much wider conflict in the region, this is my opinion only of course but I know this is easy to substantiate. Hamas cannot compete with Isreal, they need a wider support base and Iran is that support base.

All I was pointing out is there was no indication of intentions regarding locations. It really has nothing to do with what's practically going on. I'm trying to keep on what's actually happening.

Of course they're always going to be conflicted. The colonising has been progressively going on since the beginning of time.

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Glad to see that someone seems to share my view and is looking at the conflict in a much broader sense.

We've been arguing on many different points from the beginning, for ages. If that doesn't count as a "broader sense" enough then I don't know what does.

Trollheart · 11-29-2012, 08:12 PM

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Originally Posted by Face

Coming up: The fairytale of evolution!

Hello everyone! Today we're going to be discussing the obviously inconclusive science of evolution, where darwinists claim your great grandaddies are pond scum! Today with us we have a creation scientist, a christian surgeon and a stoner atheist.

They have a word for that: bias.

Why would a fish be involved, and what would his religion have to do with ... oh wait, I thought that said Christian sturgeon!

PoorOldPo · 11-29-2012, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by gunnels

I don't have a TV or politically charged friends nor did the OP elaborate nor have any of the posts specifically said what is going on, so may I ask wtf is this all about?

I didn't make the thread. A moderator took a post I made in some thread and made it a thread. I had no idea, lol.

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Originally Posted by Trollheart

Why would a fish be involved, and what would his religion have to do with ... oh wait, I thought that said Christian sturgeon!

Christian Sturgeon? Whats that got to do with fish?