The Wild & Wacky World Of The Middle East

Newkie · 11-18-2012, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Turkey I'm certain would side with Isreal and they are NATO members and want to be EU members.

You think Turkey would side with Israel? I've never really thought about it that way, I agree that if Iran was the "aggressor" and the UK became it would probably side strategically with NATO because any other course would be ridiculous. But if Israel "started" another conflict which Iran then became involved in, I'm not so sure Turkey would align with Israel, I think they'd just stay neutral.

From a Machiavellian viewpoint, the current status quo probably suits Turkey fine. No risk of conflict with any Arab states as they are obsessed with Israel, and visa versa, and whilst Israel ploughs money into it's military Turkey is able to develop its military and economy at a steady pace.

Like you said though, you can't rule out a conflict, but I really don't think anything will happen any time soon.

Newkie · 11-18-2012, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger ?

Middle Eastern conflicts bore the shit out of me so I moved it to this forum where I hardly post so I didn't have to see it in the your day thread every 5 minutes.

You're welcome.

Honesty, how refreshing

Rjinn · 11-18-2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Well Gaza was actually captured as the spoils of war in 1967 after Isreal had been invaded and beat the invaders, it was then given to the Palestinians and quickly became controlled by Hamas. Depending on your point of view Hamas are a terrorist organization and are actively involved in a conflict with Isreal, so when Isreal is being attacked by Hamas from the territory of Gaza, Isreal really didn't have much of a choice but to retaliate.

Not all Palestians are Hamas.

Also Hamas were originally a resistant movement and weren't formed as a terrorist group. They were founded to liberate Palestine and establish Arab states. They later were willing to collaborate with Israel to end the feud. The brutal clash was a response of the accused attempt to assassinate their prime minister. Not only did they launch rockets to the Israeli post, but also to the Egyptian post as well. It was about the borders, not just to kill Israelis. Later the Israelis closed borders to deny aid, which is when they managed smuggling money to finance schools and hospitals. Can you see how it's a continual struggle?

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Oh they do care, they've lost so much prestige over the years after finishing second best to the Isrealis in military conflicts, the only difference now is that Iran would need to be the main organizer of anti-Isreali forces, as the other major powers in Egypt won't provoke another war (they would if they could) and Syria is engaged in its own domestic war and Iraq won't work with Iran.

Unless you have evidence, there isn't any sign or alert to present scheming. Most of them haven't lifted a finger nor do they have to collaborate with each other to send aid to Palestine on their own.

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Hamas know that their only chance of success is to provoke this into a much wider conflict, that is how an underdog seeks to win, history is littered with such examples.

Again, I don't agree with the war in general. My original point was the Israelis aren't the only ones here who had a right to retaliate. They've caused a fair share of bull**** as well.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 11-18-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

Honesty, how refreshing

They've been trying to blow the **** out of each other for 1000s of years. I don't really have any sympathy for any side.

Unknown Soldier · 11-18-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger ?

Middle Eastern conflicts bore the shit out of me so I moved it to this forum where I hardly post so I didn't have to see it in the your day thread every 5 minutes.

You're welcome.

Since you're in such a helpful mood, I need two journal entries to be approved.

Unknown Soldier · 11-18-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

You think Turkey would side with Israel? I've never really thought about it that way, I agree that if Iran was the "aggressor" and the UK became it would probably side strategically with NATO because any other course would be ridiculous. But if Israel "started" another conflict which Iran then became involved in, I'm not so sure Turkey would align with Israel, I think they'd just stay neutral.

From a Machiavellian viewpoint, the current status quo probably suits Turkey fine. No risk of conflict with any Arab states as they are obsessed with Israel, and visa versa, and whilst Israel ploughs money into it's military Turkey is able to develop its military and economy at a steady pace.

Like you said though, you can't rule out a conflict, but I really don't think anything will happen any time soon.

Turkey if forced to choose would side with the west but their neutral stance would still aid the west by providing access to military bases etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinn

Not all Palestians are Hamas.

Also Hamas were originally a resistant movement and weren't formed as a terrorist group. They were founded to liberate Palestine and establish Arab states. They later were willing to collaborate with Israel to end the feud. The brutal clash was a response of the accused attempt to assassinate their prime minister. Not only did they launch rockets to the Israeli post, but also to the Egyptian post as well. It was about the borders, not just to kill Israelis. Later the Israelis closed borders to deny aid, which is when they managed smuggling money to finance schools and hospitals. Can you see how it's a continual struggle?

I never stated that Palestinians were Hamas, just that Hamas are based in Gaza meaning that they will have strong support from there.

Any resistant movement formed in the context of this debate, often has an active military wing and that military wing usually becomes the most dominant element.

They may well have had noble intentions for Palestinians, but basically they just used their Sunni Islamic ideals to unite Sunnis against Isreal. I doubt they even care for the welfare of their fellow Palestinians and like most terrorist organizations are just in it, for what they can get out of it.

The attacking Egypt, is just another example of the division that constantly divdes the Arab states.

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Unless you have evidence, there isn't any sign or alert to present scheming. Most of them haven't lifted a finger nor do they have to collaborate with each other to send aid to Palestine on their own.

No current evidence is needed, the hatred of Isreal is second-nature. If they knew that there was any real chance of eliminating the state of Isreal, then they would jump in with both feet. Luckily Isreal has the power and the backing to prevent them from being wiped out.

Newkie · 11-18-2012, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger ?

They've been trying to blow the **** out of each other for 1000s of years. I don't really have any sympathy for any side.

Yeah, true enough. I was definitely more actively interested in it as a kid, now it's just one of those reoccurring things that I can't really avoid hearing about, so it always seems to come up in conversation.

Unknown Soldier · 11-18-2012, 08:06 AM

@ Urban-Journal entries updated, you're a star.

**Janszoon** · 11-18-2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

@ Urban-Journal entries updated, you're a star.

That wasn't Urban.

Unknown Soldier · 11-18-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

Yeah, true enough. I was definitely more actively interested in it as a kid, now it's just one of those reoccurring things that I can't really avoid talking about.

Personally I find it fascinating, how they can keep knocking seven buckets of **** out of each other, learn nothing and then still get up and repeat the process all over again.