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View Poll Results: Who has your vote?
OBAMA/BIDEN 35 59.32%
ROMNEY/RYAN 7 11.86%
My cat. 17 28.81%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:14 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Intelligence is only correlated with income as higher levels of education tend to produce better job opportunities. It is, however, a logical fallacy to imply that correlation equals causation. People aren't less intelligent because they're poor, people who come from lower income areas and families and can't afford education are less likely to meet the rigorously defined study criteria for intelligence precisely because they can't afford the higher education that would allow them to meet such criteria.

This of course has nothing to do with their cognition, either.

The jobless aren't jobless because they're stupid, lazy, irresponsible, or don't want to work. They're out of work for a variety of factors, more than can just be brushed aside and chalked up to personal responsibility.

That kind of callousness toward those who need our support is exactly why Romney doesn't have my respect as political candidate. Frankly, I'm tired of what the Republican party has come to stand for. Big business, not big government. It's not a conspiracy theory. Republicans want free market capitalism. Well guess what, so do I. I love capitalism. It lets me eat fried chicken even though I know it's terrible for me. But FUCK IT. When that chicken eventually gives me a heart attack, I'd like the same government I've proudly given my tax dollars to, the same government I may be expected to defend in times of crisis, the same into community to which I was born and supported until my moment of crisis, TO HELP ME THE FUCK OUT.

How the FUCK is universal healthcare bad for the country? How the FUCK is a social safety net an affront to your personal liberties? We pay taxes that ultimately do FUCK ALL but go to bullshit spending programs enacted to make sure the funding doesn't stop coming in. Libertarians may tell me it was my fault for eating the fried chicken to begin with. It was. I respect that. I respect what Libertarians want, economically speaking. But if we're so hung up on personal accountability, on eye for eye justice, on putting ideology ahead of human beings, then we'll let people suffer and die simply for making the wrong decisions. Life is short, life is confusing. Some people are born with good circumstances, others in poverty. Some have strength, motivation, and drive. Others are fatigued, plagued, and frail. Some have access to education, others don't.

The government could compete directly with private corporations for healthcare. Better healthcare is available if you can afford it. If not, you won't be left without treatment because of your economic circumstances. Obama's healthcare plan hardly even goes that far, and yet it's derided by the right as "socialist", as if that phrase even holds weight as a pejorative.

Yet, the Republican Party is largely pro-life, anti stem cell research, pro-war on drugs, and devoutly religious to the point that it affects policies. So much for that constitution you all want to restore. So much for personal freedom from big govment. The Republican Party is a fucking joke. It's all about getting those precious Reagan years back. Libertarians have my respect, and unless the Republicans win this year or make drastic changes, they seem poised to take their place in some sense or another.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #162 (permalink)
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Yet, the Republican Party is largely pro-life, anti stem cell research, pro-war on drugs, and devoutly religious to the point that it affects policies. So much for that constitution you all want to restore. So much for personal freedom from big govment. The Republican Party is a fucking joke. It's all about getting those precious Reagan years back. Libertarians have my respect, and unless the Republicans win this year or make drastic changes, they seem poised to take their place in some sense or another.
Republican party is so divided as a party. I mean you have a party that led by Tea Party folks and the congress has a 13 percent approval. Reagan would considered a liberal in today's Republican party with that the party wants to get rid of Medicare, Medicade, and social security. Also you have a party led by NeoCons like John McCain and Dick cheney. The party is losing a lot of value.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:38 AM   #163 (permalink)
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According to who? So you're saying because I'm incredibly poor right now I must be just plain stupid? Even though I have a degree in science, a post graduate degree and have plenty of work experience? I must be really stupid. It's got nothing to do with the economic climate, the diminishing job industry and poor decisions made by the government. I might as well jump off a cliff then if I'm that stupid, because I'll never get any money ever because of that.

Flynn, for whom the Flynn effect is named, among others. Regarding your hyperbolic, emotive points: link
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:44 AM   #164 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Conan View Post
Intelligence is only correlated with income as higher levels of education tend to produce better job opportunities. It is, however, a logical fallacy to imply that correlation equals causation. People aren't less intelligent because they're poor, people who come from lower income areas and families and can't afford education are less likely to meet the rigorously defined study criteria for intelligence precisely because they can't afford the higher education that would allow them to meet such criteria.

This of course has nothing to do with their cognition, either.

The jobless aren't jobless because they're stupid, lazy, irresponsible, or don't want to work. They're out of work for a variety of factors, more than can just be brushed aside and chalked up to personal responsibility.

That kind of callousness toward those who need our support is exactly why Romney doesn't have my respect as political candidate. Frankly, I'm tired of what the Republican party has come to stand for. Big business, not big government. It's not a conspiracy theory. Republicans want free market capitalism. Well guess what, so do I. I love capitalism. It lets me eat fried chicken even though I know it's terrible for me. But FUCK IT. When that chicken eventually gives me a heart attack, I'd like the same government I've proudly given my tax dollars to, the same government I may be expected to defend in times of crisis, the same into community to which I was born and supported until my moment of crisis, TO HELP ME THE FUCK OUT.

How the FUCK is universal healthcare bad for the country? How the FUCK is a social safety net an affront to your personal liberties? We pay taxes that ultimately do FUCK ALL but go to bullshit spending programs enacted to make sure the funding doesn't stop coming in. Libertarians may tell me it was my fault for eating the fried chicken to begin with. It was. I respect that. I respect what Libertarians want, economically speaking. But if we're so hung up on personal accountability, on eye for eye justice, on putting ideology ahead of human beings, then we'll let people suffer and die simply for making the wrong decisions. Life is short, life is confusing. Some people are born with good circumstances, others in poverty. Some have strength, motivation, and drive. Others are fatigued, plagued, and frail. Some have access to education, others don't.

The government could compete directly with private corporations for healthcare. Better healthcare is available if you can afford it. If not, you won't be left without treatment because of your economic circumstances. Obama's healthcare plan hardly even goes that far, and yet it's derided by the right as "socialist", as if that phrase even holds weight as a pejorative.

Yet, the Republican Party is largely pro-life, anti stem cell research, pro-war on drugs, and devoutly religious to the point that it affects policies. So much for that constitution you all want to restore. So much for personal freedom from big govment. The Republican Party is a fucking joke. It's all about getting those precious Reagan years back. Libertarians have my respect, and unless the Republicans win this year or make drastic changes, they seem poised to take their place in some sense or another.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:59 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:23 AM   #166 (permalink)
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yes, intelligence is correlated with income. Shocking news, I know.
That is a comment so hilariously stupid that by your own standards it wouldn't scrape minimum wage. If you genuinely, seriously believe that the working class is in the position they're in due to them not being as intelligent as the rich then I can only come to the conclusion that you've spent your entire life in some kind of bubble doing nothing but watching objectivist filmography that glorifies Gina Rinehart as der ubermensch.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:03 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Flynn, for whom the Flynn effect is named, among others. Regarding your hyperbolic, emotive points: link
What does the Law of Numbers have to do with it? Answer my question, are you saying I'm stupid because I'm poor? Without links.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:39 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Seriously, please do NOT think hhbh is in any way representative of the male attitude here. We feel your pain. Well, not literally of course, but we understand we'd all be screwed without you, and thank you for your forbearance. You should be entitled to insurance. Yeah, I know I'm Irish so my opinion means eff-all, hhbh, but as a human being I think it has to carry some weight.

Hang in there, ladies.
I definitely don't think his opinion is an example of every man's opinion. Especially since I know most men are less ignorant. Thank you for the support and it means a lot that members outside of the U.S. are commenting. The election affects everyone.

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According to who? So you're saying because I'm incredibly poor right now I must be just plain stupid? Even though I have a degree in science, a post graduate degree and have plenty of work experience? I must be really stupid. It's got nothing to do with the economic climate, the diminishing job industry and poor decisions made by the government. I might as well jump off a cliff then if I'm that stupid, because I'll never get any money ever because of that.
Just for the sake of reposting. ^
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:31 AM   #169 (permalink)
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What does the Law of Numbers have to do with it? Answer my question, are you saying I'm stupid because I'm poor? Without links.
The relevance is obvious. If x tendency is true, the larger the sample size the more the results will bear out the tendency. So, if, say, 33% of convicted paedophiles are repeat offenders, the possibility that any given sample of paedophiles won't bear out this statistical truth decreases as the sample size increases. Hence why a sample size of ONE is meaningless.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:26 AM   #170 (permalink)
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Anyone have any thoughts on the debate? Watched it just now and thought that Ryan kept repeating a mantra that conveniently sidestepped any questions, but Biden seemed a little lost at times, stumbling over words and getting a little lost, which I fear may show him as coming out less strongly in the debate as a whole.

In general though, I don't think it did much to change anyone's opinion. Ryan had nothing new to say, and anyone who is going to vote for Romney will, but anyone whose mind was not made up is, I think, unlikely to have been swayed by Ryan's non-arguments. Similarly for Biden, I think the idea "let us finish the job" has been well-touted by the Obama camp now, and you either believe it or you don't.

One small point: I think Biden made something of a gaffe by not thanking Ryan in the closing statement, and when Ryan DID thank Biden, I believe he scored a point, especially with his "It's been an honour to debate with you Joe" remark.

Overall though I don't see this as having the power to change or make up any voters' minds.

Anyone agree? Think differently? What do I know: I'm just an Irish gob****e. It's you that are going to eventually make the decision to either change or re-elect the administration...
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