Guybrush

Well, there are many studies that show that homosexuality is influenced by things we can't choose. It's f.ex proven that homosexuality runs in families, that a man is more likely to be gay the more older brothers were born by his mother before him and that homosexual women have hands (finger length ratios) that more resemble male hands than heterosexual womens hands do. As shown in the program I posted, one can easily choose whether a rat should behave sexually like a male or female rat by administering/controlling hormones at birth.

But ruling out psychology, even if it plays no role, is much more difficult than proving that things have an influence.

I think it's sad that so many people seem eager to hang onto the idea that homosexuality is a choice. I believe most gay people don't feel like they have a choice in the matter. I once read a study that showed how people who believe sexual orientation is not a choice are typically more tolerant to gays and lesbians. It's easy to understand why. If you believe it is simply a choice, then you make all gay men and women responsible for making that choice. And if it's a choice you don't agree with, then you may condemn them for that. I think that's quite unfair.

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TockTockTock

The APA has also switched its position on matters regarding homosexuality numerous times...

Here's a question to consider: Why does the APA consider pedophilia a psychological disorder and not homosexuality? They are both deviations from the "norm," and they both share numerous amounts of anecdotal (which isn't necessarily valid) evidence supporting it's not a choice. The only argument is that pedophilia is "immoral" due to the nature of children not to be consenting adults... where as legally-of-age homosexuals are.

Keep in mind that I am not arguing that homosexuality is a psychological disorder. There is no proof of this.

Neapolitan

What do you mean "...you may condemn them..."?

If one doesn't agree with someone else's choice it doesn't follow that his disagreement is equivalent to a condemnation.

Sexual orientation doesn't rule out choices, if a man is attracted to women you can't say he has no means of making a choice of who to date; whether or not to get married.

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Guybrush

The point is people who believe homosexuality to be merely choice are, on average, less tolerant towards gay people. Those who believe it to be an immutable choice are less condemning, again on average.

I worded myself as I did because believing it's a choice doesn't mean you'll condemn someone for making that choice, but it becomes an option. If you don't believe it's a choice, then obviously you can't condemn someone for making that choice. So I put "may" in there. I could've put "could" in instead.

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anticipation

It's relatively simple, the APA and most people would agree that a pedophile's attraction to children stems at least in part from the relationship of dominance and the loss of innocence that comes with taking advantage of someone who is both less mature and less sexually aware than the pedophile. Attraction to a seemingly helpless person is somewhat advantageous and exploitative by definition, whereas two consenting adults are obviously informed and in control of the choices they are making.

midnight rain

Just wondering but what do you think about sex with mentally retarded people? That kind of straddles the line between the things that make pedophilia wrong, and the fact that they're an adult and will never be fully mature or sexually aware.

anticipation

I'd say that the "deviance" in pedophilia again originates from the exploitation of the unprotected and innocent, just as it does when someone takes advantage of a mentally retarded person. Someone who purposefully and knowingly derives pleasure from the opportunistic aspect of sex with someone with disabilities has more of a personality disorder than a sexual one, because in my eyes the sexual act is just the manifestation of these desires for power and dominance. If, however, the mental retardation does not interfere with the pleasure or consent of the disabled, then the issue is moot. As long as both sides are entering into the act with a mutual understanding of the consequences and motivations for said act, then there is really no problem with the act.

So yeah, not that this has anything to do with the thread

Forward To Death

Because if you're attracted to women/men sexually, it can be your choice to experiment with it, and maybe it turns out you like it. That's how a lot of bisexuality starts.

You're looking at this in the most black-and-white way that you possibly could. Perversions are just sexual attractions, it's fixating on something sexually, and it gets you horny. Do women's bodies make you aroused? Maybe you should try experimenting, that's how I started.

WWWP

So you think that sexual orientation is reliant on sexual acts and not attraction? You weren't bisexual until you experimented with both a man and a woman?

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Salami

I agree with this and find it very well put. For anyone who's arguing otherwise, it's important to accept that if I see in someone my own gender an appealing trait or aspect, for instance think "I love the way he's done his hair!", that doesn't mean I would therefore be gay. There is a distinct difference between being attracted to someone and appreciating the way they look.