Dark Humor and Shock Comedy – How far is too far?
 

Recent events in a thread have inspired this topic.

How far does black comedy go before it becomes so distastful that it becomes offensive? Can so called dark humor, such as jokes about death, murder, rape, and domestic violence, or so called shock humor – jokes about God, race, homosexuality, etc... Ever be appreciated in any kind of context, or is it morally disgusting to use such serious subjects in comedy?

I don't know that you can have the line set in stone but you can always tell when it's been crossed. Are emoticons a license to offend?

I think it's all about context. Anything can be funny if it's said under the right circumstances by the right person.

This.

Referring to the argument that inspired this thread...if Canwll made a rape joke I might be so surprised he did that I would probably laugh. A lot. Other people are on thin ice and should really watch what they say.

I am notoriously bad at judging what the right circumstances are. I don't know how many times I have made a joke that nobody has understood and have been completely embarrassed by the time I have explained to people what I meant and why I thought it was funny.

I think dark humour is able to stretch the band a bit further since it makes light of a negative side of life, a current tragic event, etc. while shock humour is funny only for its inappropriate vulgarity.

Plus, fazstp, that's what made me the weird guy amongst my friends who is hilarious only to two or three other people. There's a lot of awkward silence following these jokes, but me and those who get my jokes are together, we have one hell of a ball.

One of the key differences that makes death a more accepted subject of dark humour is that it is an event that everyone will experience. Nobody is immune to it, and while it make come sooner for some who don't deserve it, and longer for others that do, in the end everyone will die. That universal fact makes it something that we will all think about at one point or another in our lives as is something we have to come to terms with.

I would say that subjects like rape, abuse, and genocide fall more in lines of what Frownland said about shock humour, or saying something that is so shocking that you laugh, not because you think it's genuinely funny, but to help assuage the awkwardness of the subject matter. Dead baby jokes are a perfect example of this. Not clever in any real sense or even witty, just take some horrible act and inflict it on something we are hardwired to protect and nurture.

This is about where I stand on this issue. Although, I will only call someone out on dark humor when they fixate on one thing and it becomes annoying. Like those people who only make jokes about race, but take offense to religious jokes or whatever.

Traditionally, if the person takes similar humor in return without getting all upset, it helps a lot.

If the joke is a joke though, and it appears that the person means no harm, I find it hard to object. Hatred is entirely different.

I think the biggest deciding factor in whether or not to tell a joke in poor taste is your audience. The key to getting away with black humour is to know your audience and when it's appropriate to toe the line.

I sort of tend to disagree, George Carlin is notorious for making fun of suicide. Christ he has an entire album on the subject titled "Life Is Worth Losing" and he's genuinely funny. It might have shock value, but I think the harshness of life and human behavior is funny in a sadistic sense. I think you're sort of laughing because of how ****ed up humanity really is.

I do definitely agree that some of it revolves around shock, though.

I concur; if someone tries to be edgy in a certain regard, but maintains their own holy cows, it annoys me to no end. I've a special dislike for a certain breed of Atheists who enjoy mocking the Christian religion, yet maintain a devout faith in egalitarianism.

I'm definitely a fan of dark, shocking humor, so I'm not exactly sure where I draw the line.

This is also true, though sometimes it's not common sense. I have a jewish friend who laughs at holocaust jokes, and tells some of the best ones I've ever heard. Sometimes it takes being embarrassed to figure out what your audience finds tasteful/distasteful.

I think it does just take common sense, honestly. I know which of my friends I can tell a rude joke to, and I didn't discover it through trial and error. I observed their sense of humour, the jokes they've told and the comedies they enjoy, and have concluded where to draw the line. I would tell an off-colour joke to my best friend, but I wouldn't stand up in a bar and say it without expecting backlash.

Sounds like you either don't know what "egalitarianism" means or you don't know what "atheism" means. Maybe both.

It's different for everyone though, life throws you curveballs in a lot of different ways. Some people have outrageous sense of humor but will get defensive about some random thing. I don't think common sense applies all the time.

The point I am ultimately trying to make is that you don't tell an offensive joke to a varied and unknown group of people, and then get butthurt when you piss them off.

That's the royal "you". I don't intend for you to feel that I mean this personally.

Agreed, I don't even curse in front of people I don't know. I respect people's beliefs and stuff, even if its not my cup of tea.

"I like to cross my own line of decency from time to time. It allows me to know I still have one." -Daniel Tosh

In a weird way, comedy can remind us of the horrors and evils of society my trivializing them. If we find ourselves offended by such topics, then doesn't that mean we care enough to do something to prevent such things from happening?

On the other hand: don't we as people naturally seek out stuff like this? We stop and look at car crashes, stand outside and gaze at house fires as families losing their homes and memories? So, if someone laughs at a Holocaust/rape/racist joke: are they really any different?

On the receiving end: some of my favourite humour is outside the realm of general acceptability, but not only is there a context for everything, but my knowledge of the person telling it is vital as to whether or not I think they mean to do harm with it.

Sorry, are you implying there is a some sort of relationship between these two notions? If so, I'd love, love, love to hear you elaborate on that.

I think he's referring to the notion that endorsing an egalitarian ideology is somehow akin to having "faith" in organized religion, which of course is utter stupidity.

You should also factor the odds of offending your audience, and weigh them. F.ex: You're telling a rude joke about jews:

1) Your audience includes 0 jews: Tell the joke.
2) Your audience includes 1 jew, but their sense of humour aligns with your joke: Tell the joke.
3) Your audience is entirely jewish, but only one or two of them may be offended: Tell the joke.
4) Your audience includes a number of jewish people, and you have no idea how they might take it: Shut the hell up.
5) Your audience includes a number of Jewish people, and you can predict they won't appreciate it: Shut the hell up.

If tasteful behaviour isn't common sense, then it's a matter of respecting your audience.

Also, when you think about it relating to this forum. How much of music would we object to if we all hated dark comedy? A lot of my favorite music has a dark, sarcastic sense of humor.

So basically you're advocating the censorship of your own thoughts and feelings in order to please the lowest common denominator? Not everyone is a comedian, and literally everyday of my own professional work life every single boundary of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. is "crossed" just for a cheap laugh. Being offended isn't something the offender can control; you're always going to displease some people. If you've any idea of "tasteful behavior" as a concrete and valuable moral code by which you should live your life then I would very much recommend you to grow the fuck up. It's a jungle out there.

Sometimes, if not most times, those who take the most offense are people who aren't even targeted. Some white people I know get offended when I refer to black people as black. All of my black friends prefer to be called black. In fact, I believe almost every study on said issue has concluded with an overwhelming majority preferring the term.

This is where it becomes difficult to predict a reaction.

I'm advocating common courtesy. Says a lot about you that you chose to interpret it as you have.

Common courtesy is a brainwashing in my opinion. I have a very healthy respect for most living things but I do not however care so much whether I am liked for my beliefs as I am respected and left to pursue them. I do not act as though my ideas for how others should act are above question just because of antiquated sentimental morality. I live in the real world.

It's different if you tell jokes for a living, or you're with people who will most likely not react poorly. I won't tell a distasteful joke in an improper setting, but if I were a comedian, people can expect to hear something outrageous. You're paid to tell it like it is in your mind, not be pleasant.

I agree, but there's a time and a place where speaking your mind will get nothing but embarrassment, or worse. This too is the real world.

Interesting, so not flaunting your nude body in front of your grandmother is the source of societal norms perpetrated by the government?

Honestly to me, I find it pretty hard to get offended by stuff like this. Some people get offended too easily. If a jokes funny, im gonna say it. If that offends people, thats fine, but please remember that lots of people nowadays, arent offended easily and find dark humor funny. But of course it depends on the audience. I'm not gonna be making dead baby jokes at a friends grandparents house.

If I stopped being courteous on this forum, it would be a disaster for everyone. Believe me, it's tempting some days.

No. I see a difference between practical courtesy and superfluous courtesy. For instance; at one time it was "common courtesy" to open doors for women, pull their seats out, light their cigarettes for them, in short, live their lives for them. In the past it was unthinkable to drive past a stranded motorist with a flat tire without stopping to help them simply because it was "the right thing to do". While I have no qualms with these actions within their context I do however see a gap in the logic that supports the maintenance of old ideas. Not only are common courtesies in constant flux, they are victims of a value system that is so arbitrarily placed in our minds despite any grounding in reality. At least my reality. There are those who may claim that "common courtesies" are timeless; that respecting the sensibilities of others is something that should be always undertaken but in all honesty it doesn't make a bit of difference whether you tell your boss to go **** himself or that you think his toupe looks nice... Life will go on regardless of what you say and do. Moving forward is a mark of progression, keeping hold of ideologies based on the way you'd like things to be instead of the way they actually are is in my opinion stagnation.

Practical courtesies, like opening the door for someone who is carrying 50+ lbs. of produce, or holding the door open for someone with a disability, is common sense to me because I recognize the symbiosis of human life. I'm not afraid to tell anyone what I think but only if I think it will have a purpose. I don't go spouting off about how I hate X people because Y and Z, but not because I'm respecting their sensibilities. It's because I have no purpose in telling a group of strangers my feelings towards them. It gets me nowhere.

I tell ya, the first time I heard "What's the difference between pizza and a baby? I don't fark the pizza before I eat it" I laughed so hard. I told my friend and he had zero reaction and another I told laughed hysterically goin "so wrong, so wrong" but laughing nevertheless. I feel like I'm beyond that kind of humor, but when I think about even that joke I still grin like an idiot. Maybe it's nostalgia of being a teenager. I dunno. I do know I am extremely desensitized to violence and the realm of dark humor...

all I know is you can spout any kind of junk about "sensitive" topics and i'm the least bit offended

but show me graphic found images, on the other hand......

Eh?

I chose my words carefully; the Atheists who annoy me are those who've a devout faith in egalitarianism. I find this stupid and annoying.

Obviously, not all who endorse egalitarianism have a devout faith in it.

i find Atheists to be more into secular humanitarianism

I think one can joke about most subjects, but it depends on context and offensive jokes should be delivered with some sort of charm. An offensive joke which is not funny is only offensive.

i'm more "diplomatic" than "courteous"

racist jokes will appeal to some of my frens, sexist jokes to some

no one understands Holocaust jokes cos it's too remote and we were never taught that in our history lessons here

the really mega-offensive jokes only few frens can take - i used to quote verbatim from shock joke comics like Viz and was usually roundly scolded for it

In that case you might want to keep this Mark Twain quote close to you.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"

That's not a matter of self censorship or oversensitive courtesy. It's a reflection of personal discipline and an ability to read others. Time and place for everything, if you're not absolutely sure it's time, then it isn't.

The biggest fundamental issue with delivering jokes and witty one liners is the underlying justification for the comment in the first place. A real comedian understands how to add a comment that will colour or shape the current subject in a funny way, a jokester will just make a comment to get people to notice him. One is hilarious, one is annoying.

As for that whole atheist / egalitarian shenanigan. I've met far more atheists faithfully thumping their science books than I've met bible zealots. Little is more annoying than hearing a 'free thinking genius' patronizing a crowd because they don't automatically adhere to their textbook world views. Ever try presenting a different belief to one of those? The black and white universe view is amazing.