Guybrush

I will try and comment briefly on some of seekn4's posts here

Seekn4, I doubt that what you've read is Science because Science has never confirmed the existence of God or proven that you can change matter with desire alone. If you have any sources to back up your claims, please post them and I will have a good look. Regarding your love experiment, trying to change the way you feel, any "results" you would gain from your "experiment" would be entirely anecdotal and using such personal experiences as compelling advice is generally considered a logical fallacy.

Furthermore, you write stuff like this :

This is a strawman argument (another logical fallacy) because scientific experimentation does not deal with one hypothesis. That's a misrepresentation of Science that you've made up. At the very least there are two, a null hypothesis and an alternative hypothesis. The two are typically opposing so that evidence for one means evidence against the other. The reason you have two hypotheses is to minimize bias and to minimize the risk of statistically proving something which is untrue.

So, I'm afraid it is apparent that you are not wise in the ways of scientific methodology.


You also write that we are made to love. How can you say that? Consider this : A person is capable of feeling love which motivates him or her to treat someone with care, share positive feelings and so on. But a person is also capable of feeling hatred which could motivate him or her to abuse, be violent to or even kill another person. As we're capable of both, how can you be so sure we were made to love and not to hate?

I'm just asking because I'd like to see your reasoning. I myself am quite sure that we were not made to do anything, but that we have evolved our feelings. Thus, they are a natural part of us and only allowing yourself a to feel a limited aspect of emotions (only love or other positive feelings) is not something I think of as typically honest nor particularly healthy.

__________________
Something Completely Different

seekn4

IFirst of all God is exactly what quantum physics is proving. You must not understand what quantum physics is cause if you "think" you know what is is, you dont. Understanding it doesn't come from watching a video, or listening to a lecture, you know what it means when after countless hours of meditation on the subject and your mind puts it together and it "clicks" or you have a revelation. Words don't teach, only life experience teaches. Maybe you should google Fred Allen wolf, he understands it, to truely understand it you have to practice it in your own life to know anything for sure.

Come on tore do you need a scientific consensus to know what feels good, And I know we are made to love and appreciate because those are the best feelings our body can produce, they feel the best, and I'm don't need to wait for a study to come out to confirm it, I do my own research and trust in myself. Yes this is a universe of free will you can choose to love or hate. And our bodies were designed to function at their best when feeling positive emotion. Do your own experiment, focus your mind on everything that pisses you off and if you dwell in the emotion for too long you will get sick, try it, it works everytime without fail, and then u know that for sure you will know what we were created to do. I do my own Experiments so the is no doubt. Emotions are our guidance. And yes anger can feel good, it feels better than dispare so it can fool you but if you keep moving higher on the emotional scale, love and appreciation blows the doors off of anger. The knowledge I seek is found on the inside, the knowledge u seek is on the outside and they will never agree, the only way we will ever agree is if you try and practice feeling good, study yourself and see how your body reacts and how the world treats you has a direct correlation to your emotional state. Knowing comes from seeing for yourself. You ever notice when you are angry nothing goes right, like magic! I seek knowledge that brings me peace and happiness that satisfies the soul. I know the world's interpretation of Christianity is severely flawed, so study on the philosophy of Buddhism they are closer to true Christians than most Christians, a Buddhist monk will go into isolation for 3 yrs 3 months and 3 days and explore the mind (go into the darkness) and weed out all of their negative emotion, and yes it takes that long, it took me longer. There are Buddhists that have meditated for a year with no food or water and didn't urinate or ****, another one hasn't eaten or drank for 50 years, scientists had him in observation for 9 days and he didn't eat drink, piss or ****, in your world of science that is not possible, yet it happens, so maybe you need to open your mind to the possibility that you just don't understand everything and the individual beliefs that each one of us holds dictates the outcome of our lives. If your cup of knowledge is full there is no room to add anything new. If you want to find out if what I say is true or not you first have to be open to the possibility that it could be or you mind wont allow you to learn anything new on the subject, and you will have no desire to figure it out, once you figure out your mind you will not look for answers anywhere else. It takes humility to learn. Obviously you already have your mind made up on what you believe is real, so why do you feel the need to argue, because I know where u r comming from I used to live in your world, until I found a better one where everything makes sense, with wisdom which brings peace to my soul, the knowledge you preach will change over time like all science, but the knowledge I preach doesn't change over time and is the same for every human, positive emotions make you feel good, and neg emotions don't, and your emotional state is directly tied to the thoughts you choose to think and how you choose to see everything, what I speak of makes you feel good, and there is no contradiction or speculation to that, there is no denying it, it is fact and indisputable.

Quantum physics is just confirming what has been written in spiritual texts that have been around for thousands of years. And written all over the world, a timeless knowledge!

There is a woman that had stage 4 cancer and refused radiation, doctors have her days to live, and had a metaphysical experience, came out of it and in 4 days her cancer was gone, her name if I can remember correctly is Anita Moorjani, and she wrote a book "dying to be me" she also has interviews on u tube. Her experience shows us that there is more than meets the eye in this world. And science doesn't have it all figured out.

Just a question tore, if the knowledge if science in constantly evolving how come your mind seems to already be made up, about everything! It must be exhausting
I used to think just like you, until I was tired of the contradictions.

The mind is the last frontier.

Why not figure out how to live the lives we all dreamed about when we were young, and how to live in peace with the world and how to get what we truely desire.

This is a music forum so I will say this, lyrics to music is saying the same message I bring, love!
Have you really listened to music, just an example: "say your prayers little one, don't forget my son to include everyone, tuck you in, warm within keep you free from sin". These are the opening words to Enter sandman by metallica, sounds like they are talking about Jesus and forgiveness don't it, and sin being negative emotion, namely anger. When the bible talks about sin it means negative emotion.
I implore all who read this to do some mind opening research and with an open mind go to u tube and check out the " what the bleep do we know/down the rabbit hole" series, Gregg Braden, Bruce Lipton, law of attraction, abraham-hicks, just to name a few and don't come to any conclusions until you have heard it all and practice it, and then you will know what spirituality and quantum physics are saying.

Guybrush

Well, you can't really debate with someone who claims that because they feel something is true, therefore it must be true. Logic on you will slide off like water on a duck. You're basically denying yourself all reason, all rational filters that could separate the bullshit from the credible. Your beliefs will turn you into an idiot.

Having an open mind doesn't have to mean you should unquestioningly believe any weird idea that can be stuffed in it. I know you don't believe this, but having faith in something doesn't necessarily make it true. Faith won't stop the train from hitting you when you're lying on the rails.

What can I say? You blow my mind, seekn4.

Yes, well - you certainly seem to be pretty far out there on the fringes.

__________________
Something Completely Different

hip hop bunny hop

Hippies are the scum of the earth.

__________________
Have mercy on the poor.

Neapolitan

I thought space was the final frontier.

__________________

blastingas10

I can somewhat agree with seek about the love thing. Maybe we weren't "made" to love, but love certainly is the driving force behind life, it's what keeps life going. It benefits life a lot more than hate. Seek just seems to perceive that it was party of a plan, or we were made to do it. And tore seems to think that it just happened, and we weren't made to do anything.

seekn4

The only real wisdom can be felt on the inside. What is so crazy about my beliefs, get rid of all thoughts and beliefs that don't make you feel good, choose to see just the good in others and the world, do what you love.... Seems pretty logical to me, I think you are the one who has forsaken logic brother, it is logical to dismiss something you don't understand, without considering it could be true first. Your mind won't allow you to learn anymore without being open to the possibility it could be true, you should really study how our mind works before you bash a train of thought out of your realm of understanding. You shouldn't haven opinion about something you know nothing about, you sir have abandoned logic.

seekn4

What can I say tore, you blow my mind, you mean to tell me that things don't happen everyday that are outside your scientific box that can't be explained with your reasoning, like people going months and years without eating or drinking, people recovering from disease when scientist and doctors say there is no hope, or people getting rid of their own cancer with nothing more than sustaining positive beliefs/emotions, I thought you had the internet, nothing is hidden now. What can I say bud, I hope the best for you. You see what I mean by too many contradictions, too much that can't be explained in that "worldly scientific box". According to your knowledge that stuff isn't possible, right?

seekn4

UI don't understand why tore won't see for himself? If you want to know once and for all if our emotions have any power or not, practice forgiveness and the evidence you seek will present itself and you can once and for all end this debate within yourself, good luck!
Just for fun check out on YouTube, "brian head welsh I am second"

Our minds work the same, if I only gathered the information tore did I would believe the same as him, however I chose to consider all possibilities with an open mind and practice them and now my mind won't allow me to have such a shallow minded limited perception of what is possible. All that is real to each individual is what they choose to believe. There is no one truth, all possible realities are existing side by side, the only thing true to you is what you believe. If anyone wants to see for themselves and you practice using your logic to feel good your mind won't let you believe what you formerly called truth.
And believe me I know how what I speak of sounds a crazy to most, I used to think that too. Until I decided the only way to know for sure is to practice what the ancients taught cause I was sick of not knowing for sure, now I do, I have seen things happen since started seeking that I won't even talk about cause it is something worldly people can't grasp, and if I was talking to myself 10 years ago I would have called me foolish too, so I know where the skeptics are coming from, I don't believe anyone who doesn't believe what I believe is an idiot, cause I know they just haven't seen what I have seen, I understand where tore is coming from, he just hasn't considered everything yet, so he won't know where I'm coming from until he has been where I've been and seen what I've seen.

Guybrush

They can be explained by my reasoning. These things didn't happen the way you think they did. Take f.ex Indian gurus who go without eating or drinking. I heard a radio documentary about these hacks last summer. Turns out a lot of them were cheating and f.ex got fed through a hole in the wall by helpers or had free time during these periods where noone was watching what they were doing. If someone can go for months without eating or drinking without being caught cheating, the most likely assumption is that they, ulike their peers, managed to cheat without getting caught.

When people really dedicate themselves to that sort of stuff without cheating, stuff like this happens.

As for people healing themselves from cancer with their thoughts alone, how do you know that's the case? Are you sure someone's not lying or exaggerating? Are you sure this person did not receive any medical treatment for the tumor? Was it as bad as you think it is? The simple fact of the matter is that your story is just that - a story - and there's no scientifically documented way or mechanism from which people can heal themselves from f.ex terminal cancer or keep themselves from dying of starvation with thought alone. If these cases were real and not just stories, they would be scientifically documented in a serious manner a long time ago.

And about doctors being wrong, well - they're just people trying to do a job. People make mistakes. They don't represent some sort of scientific infallibility.


Regarding beliefs, you really need to have some sort of quality control that tells you whether or not something is believable. I get the impression you don't have such a control so I will tell you how you can do it. Whenever you have a phenomenon that you can explain, the best explanation is the one which requires the least amount of new assumptions about the universe you live in. Relating to our discussion, let's say a guru claims to have lived for 40 years without food. You got two possible explanations; that he is telling the truth or that he is lying. The explanation that he's lying requires no new assumptions about the world you live in because we already know people are capable of lying. However, the explanation that he actually survives for 40 years without eating will lead to a wealth of new assumptions about the world, starting with the assumption that people can completely abstain from food and drink without starving/dehydrating to death and that people can control their ability to live without food with their minds. Then you can start to imagine the wealth of assumptions our current understanding of physics, physiology, chemistry, etc. would have to make in order to accommodate this explanation (you seem to mentally file a lot of this under "quantum").

In the end, you will have to make up a ****load of new assumptions about the world for this to work and any one of those assumptions may be wrong. In other words, the chance is very high indeed that you will be wrong somewhere and of course every assumption based on a wrong assumption will also be wrong. In other words, go far with it (like I believe you have, personally) you could build a whole belief system that is full of errors because it's based on wrong assumptions.

So in order to reduce the risk of believing something which is wrong, you should choose to believe the starving guru is a cheater and a liar. By doing that, you're just assuming something we know is possible, right? After all, anyone can cheat and lie. You can even assume the guru lies while keeping an open mind about it. After all, if it really is possible to go 40 years without food and drink without dying, then such feats are possible to study so that one can get proper scientific evidence. When that happens and it has passed all those quality controls for "truth", you can accept it into your belief system.

The above principles really should be taught in primary school as an effort to reduce large scale gullibility. So, quality control. Get some!

__________________
Something Completely Different