Guybrush

Well, you can't really debate with someone who claims that because they feel something is true, therefore it must be true. Logic on you will slide off like water on a duck. You're basically denying yourself all reason, all rational filters that could separate the bullshit from the credible. Your beliefs will turn you into an idiot.

Having an open mind doesn't have to mean you should unquestioningly believe any weird idea that can be stuffed in it. I know you don't believe this, but having faith in something doesn't necessarily make it true. Faith won't stop the train from hitting you when you're lying on the rails.

What can I say? You blow my mind, seekn4.

Yes, well - you certainly seem to be pretty far out there on the fringes.

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hip hop bunny hop

Hippies are the scum of the earth.

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Have mercy on the poor.

Neapolitan

I thought space was the final frontier.

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blastingas10

I can somewhat agree with seek about the love thing. Maybe we weren't "made" to love, but love certainly is the driving force behind life, it's what keeps life going. It benefits life a lot more than hate. Seek just seems to perceive that it was party of a plan, or we were made to do it. And tore seems to think that it just happened, and we weren't made to do anything.

seekn4

The only real wisdom can be felt on the inside. What is so crazy about my beliefs, get rid of all thoughts and beliefs that don't make you feel good, choose to see just the good in others and the world, do what you love.... Seems pretty logical to me, I think you are the one who has forsaken logic brother, it is logical to dismiss something you don't understand, without considering it could be true first. Your mind won't allow you to learn anymore without being open to the possibility it could be true, you should really study how our mind works before you bash a train of thought out of your realm of understanding. You shouldn't haven opinion about something you know nothing about, you sir have abandoned logic.

seekn4

What can I say tore, you blow my mind, you mean to tell me that things don't happen everyday that are outside your scientific box that can't be explained with your reasoning, like people going months and years without eating or drinking, people recovering from disease when scientist and doctors say there is no hope, or people getting rid of their own cancer with nothing more than sustaining positive beliefs/emotions, I thought you had the internet, nothing is hidden now. What can I say bud, I hope the best for you. You see what I mean by too many contradictions, too much that can't be explained in that "worldly scientific box". According to your knowledge that stuff isn't possible, right?

Guybrush

They can be explained by my reasoning. These things didn't happen the way you think they did. Take f.ex Indian gurus who go without eating or drinking. I heard a radio documentary about these hacks last summer. Turns out a lot of them were cheating and f.ex got fed through a hole in the wall by helpers or had free time during these periods where noone was watching what they were doing. If someone can go for months without eating or drinking without being caught cheating, the most likely assumption is that they, ulike their peers, managed to cheat without getting caught.

When people really dedicate themselves to that sort of stuff without cheating, stuff like this happens.

As for people healing themselves from cancer with their thoughts alone, how do you know that's the case? Are you sure someone's not lying or exaggerating? Are you sure this person did not receive any medical treatment for the tumor? Was it as bad as you think it is? The simple fact of the matter is that your story is just that - a story - and there's no scientifically documented way or mechanism from which people can heal themselves from f.ex terminal cancer or keep themselves from dying of starvation with thought alone. If these cases were real and not just stories, they would be scientifically documented in a serious manner a long time ago.

And about doctors being wrong, well - they're just people trying to do a job. People make mistakes. They don't represent some sort of scientific infallibility.


Regarding beliefs, you really need to have some sort of quality control that tells you whether or not something is believable. I get the impression you don't have such a control so I will tell you how you can do it. Whenever you have a phenomenon that you can explain, the best explanation is the one which requires the least amount of new assumptions about the universe you live in. Relating to our discussion, let's say a guru claims to have lived for 40 years without food. You got two possible explanations; that he is telling the truth or that he is lying. The explanation that he's lying requires no new assumptions about the world you live in because we already know people are capable of lying. However, the explanation that he actually survives for 40 years without eating will lead to a wealth of new assumptions about the world, starting with the assumption that people can completely abstain from food and drink without starving/dehydrating to death and that people can control their ability to live without food with their minds. Then you can start to imagine the wealth of assumptions our current understanding of physics, physiology, chemistry, etc. would have to make in order to accommodate this explanation (you seem to mentally file a lot of this under "quantum").

In the end, you will have to make up a ****load of new assumptions about the world for this to work and any one of those assumptions may be wrong. In other words, the chance is very high indeed that you will be wrong somewhere and of course every assumption based on a wrong assumption will also be wrong. In other words, go far with it (like I believe you have, personally) you could build a whole belief system that is full of errors because it's based on wrong assumptions.

So in order to reduce the risk of believing something which is wrong, you should choose to believe the starving guru is a cheater and a liar. By doing that, you're just assuming something we know is possible, right? After all, anyone can cheat and lie. You can even assume the guru lies while keeping an open mind about it. After all, if it really is possible to go 40 years without food and drink without dying, then such feats are possible to study so that one can get proper scientific evidence. When that happens and it has passed all those quality controls for "truth", you can accept it into your belief system.

The above principles really should be taught in primary school as an effort to reduce large scale gullibility. So, quality control. Get some!

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seekn4

I really have no desire to read all of your babble but I did read the first paragraph, you only listen to skeptics so that is all you know, and I'm sure some have faked it however some are real, one was locked in a room for 9 days in a hospital room by people just like you, and recorded it all and they can't explain it and are baffled, there is your science and you refuse to believe it, that was a controlled experiment yet you dismiss it cause again you will have to admit you are wrong.
WHY CAN'T YOU ADMIT THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND AND CAN'T EXPLAIN? I am sure the people on this forum are sick of your arrogance, can I get an amen!

Guybrush

I thought you felt nothing but love for me, seekn4.

About your starving guru, if there really was a good study on this guy, give us a link to this study then so we can read about it. I already stated I will look into whatever documentation you can find.

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Phantom Limb

Dude, you need to take some philosophy and psychology classes.

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