someonecompletelyrandom

What are your views on astral projection, that is the leaving of the consciousness from the body through deep mediation (controlled breathing and concentration), use of entheogenic herbs and drugs (such as salvia divinorum) or accidentally (surgery, car crash and near death experience, etc).

There are a couple of schools of thought when it comes to what exactly the "astral plane" is. The basic religious perspective is that it is literally another place – a realm separate from the human one our bodies were born into. A more scientific (although I personally find it more profound) is that these experiences are a conscious exploration of our subconscious. This gives these "journeys inside the self" a great capacity for personal insight. A third, hard science theory is that any perceived effects are simply hallucinations or waking dreams with no value or personal context.

As someone who takes a non-religous approach to meditating, and believes that a lot can be accomplished with a clear head and proper concentration – I'm very open minded to this concept. However, I see it as unlikely that I would be able to experience "astral projection" (which I believe is simply an exploration of my own mind, with dormant feelings manifesting themselves as "physical" entities within my imagination) through mediation alone. I think it is far more likely through a combination of meditation and salvia use. People have already reported profound experiences through their usage of salvia, and if I go into it with a mind emptied by meditation I can imagine it will be more than just a "trip".

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Eh, I'm majorly in agreement with the concept of 'escaping the body' being somewhat psychosomatic. But, I'm majorly a skeptic.

However, I do believe in the merits of isolated meditation, and if one could explore his/her mind through Transcendental meditation, I'm all for it. Especially if one could hone mental prowess/creativity to the point of fictionalizing a out of body trip.

As for drugs. I suppose that they could assist one in achieving certain mental states, I mean, that's their purpose. Yet, I'd hesitate to consider Salvia breakthrough. I mean, a lot of people said LSD was breakthrough in the 1960s(and it's probably much more effective at generating hallucinations), and we're no closer to unlocking the mysteries of the spirit world now than we were then.

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SIRIUSB

Being an occultist for over 30 years, I have actively pursued OBE, and studied it with others. My conclusion, as well as most occultists, is that OBE's do not exist.
The closest thing I have ever come, is being able to enter into a lucid dream state, but this is only for seconds, perhaps a minute, before it dissolves.

Anytime this experience was possible, was after a prolonged set of rituals intended to altar the consciousness and open up the unconsciousness.

I believe all NDE and related experiences are neuroscientific.
Meditations are certain forms of Trance Induction.

Guybrush

I don't think science says waking dreams or hallucinations can't have any value or personal context. That's all you!

There are many cultures in the world where, famously, people take hallucinogenics as a way to get in touch with themselves on a deeper level .. or something like that. I don't think it's science's goal to devalue experiences like that, just to figure out what causes them to happen.

I believe out of body experiences to be illusions, waking dreams or hallucinations. With the right setup, it's been possible to induce out-of-body experiences with experimental setups.

>> The Experimental Induction of Out-of-Body Experiences

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Mrd00d

I hear DMT will give not only out of body but out of this universe experiences...

I don't think LSD or mushrooms or salvia are breakthrough experiences either. At least not at normal doses. And the more you do the more you can fry your brain.

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SIRIUSB

Ironically, drugs don't 'add' anything to the mind, but rather allow for certain neurochemical releases to take place, in other words It is already inside of us, we just have to release the experience.

ThePhanastasio

I don't think of the "astral plane" as being a completely separate place at all. Although I do feel that its presence, via OBEs, psychosomatic or no, probably contributes strongly to solidifying faith in there being something "more".

The way I feel about it, whether it be from psychedelic experimentation, meditation, traumatic events, etc. is that it's the consciousness retreating fully into the subconscious, bringing that instead to the forefront of ones' awareness. I think it's an occurrence that externalizes internal thoughts, making them appear to be solid and tangible in some sense, which is a truly intense and often humbling experience.

Via psychedelic experimentation, I myself have experienced what can be best described as out of body experiences, often resulting in complete dissolution of ego, an understanding of the significance of things on a grander scale, myself being completely minute and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. During these times, I have felt completely removed from my body, but I believe that I had simply retreated deep within my own mind - so that consciousness of what signifies "awake" and what signifies "asleep" became blurred.

It really is kind of difficult to articulate without it seeming to be full of contradictions, but that's really the best way I can explain my opinion as a result of experiences.

Let it be known also that this is quite possible the most subjective of opinions - it's simply the sense that I gathered from my own personal experience, without all-encompassing knowledge of what it all really meant.

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someonecompletelyrandom

Yes, I agree. Thanks for clearing that up as I didn't mean to say that science seeks to devalue OBE experiences, but rather that some are of the belief that the hallucinations are random and the personal value is entirely dependent upon later assumptions and bias, as opposed to truly retreating into the mind as ThePhantastasio describes below.

I have never tried any sort of substance induced OBE experimentation, but just today I did feel something quite unlike anything I've yet to experience through plain and simple meditation.

I was actually playing a binaural beat (theta) while laying down and meditating. As much as I'd like to believe binaural beats do anything significant to brain waves, the jury is still out - and I was really only playing it as a way to drown out ambiance. Anyway, after about 45 minutes of relaxation I became partially paralyzed, perhaps not physically but psychologically I couldn't quite signal my hands to move anywhere beyond a slight nudge. It was as if they were being held in place. After about 15 more minutes of this sensation on again, off again, something really frightening happened. My entire body felt as if started vibrating. This startled me so much that I tore my blindfold off and stopped the music (so apparently with enough of a want to I could indeed move).

I was quite disappointed with myself for not sticking with it and seeing where it went. Especially after reading that the "Vibrating stage" occurs right before an OBE.

I'm still in awe of it all. With absolutely no religious pretext whatsoever I was still able to experience something so.. different. And without the use of a substance.. it's all just concentration. The mind is an incredibly powerful thing. My personal theory is that those who can "astral project" at will have trained their body to fall asleep while their mind stays awake. It's really an amazing concept to me.

blastingas10

Wow. Very interesting story.

I once had a dream, if that's what it was. I don't know what to call it, a "waking dream" perhaps. But in this experience, I found myself awake and looking around my room. It was dark when I went to bed and When I awoke (in this OBE as it seemed) I did not turn my light on, yet it was bright in my room. I just remember walking and looking around for a little bit. The next thing I remember is trying to move my hands and open my eyes, but I couldn't. I remember thinking to myself: "am I blind? Am I dead?" it was quite scary. Finally, somehow, I was able to open my eyes and wake my body. It was so strange.

O ya, during this experience i could not see my arms or legs or any other part of my body. Almost as if my body wasn't there.

What do you make out of this? I'd like to get someones opinion on it. I'm not very knowledgable about this kind of thing. Although I'm very interested in this subject.

someonecompletelyrandom

The problematic thing I think about when reading OBE stories like this is the possibility of it simply being a full out lucid dream. It's difficult to determine how many of these experiences are true, mind asleep body asleep dreams or mind awake, body asleep astral projections/OBEs. I guess it's entirely dependent on how you feel about it, and how real it was to you. Did it feel like a dream or something more?

Note: it's worth noting that some, less skeptical practitioners than me might assert that since our consciousness partially disconnects from us every night when we sleep, sometimes your consciousness will be vibrated completely out of your body while you sleep, sometimes without you even realizing its happening.