Astral Projection and Out-of-body experiences

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-16-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I think inducing such experiences with drugs should only support the argument that there is no soul, though. I mean clearly such experiences would only show the extent of how our perception is dependent on our bodies, our neurochemistry. If the (travelling) soul/self/consciousness was independent from the body, then OBEs shouldn't need such chemical trickery.

My only issue with this is the fact that drug induced experiences like high dosages of salvia seem to differ tremendously on clarity from sober "journeys" into the "astral plane", whatever that may be.

My point being that I feel as though if used, drugs should only be there to enhance an experience at worst, aid in meditaion at best. The drug shouldn't become the experience.

blastingas10 · 12-16-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIRIUSB

Science has a pretty good idea how the mind works, not a perfect understanding, but a very good understanding.

All our subjective experiences are neurologically induced, which doesn't make them 'not' real. Reality is subjective as well, things can be as real as you want them to be.

But there is still a lot to learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

The problematic thing I think about when reading OBE stories like this is the possibility of it simply being a full out lucid dream. It's difficult to determine how many of these experiences are true, mind asleep body asleep dreams or mind awake, body asleep astral projections/OBEs. I guess it's entirely dependent on how you feel about it, and how real it was to you. Did it feel like a dream or something more?

Note: it's worth noting that some, less skeptical practitioners than me might assert that since our consciousness partially disconnects from us every night when we sleep, sometimes your consciousness will be vibrated completely out of your body while you sleep, sometimes without you even realizing its happening.

It felt like something more than a dream. Especially when I was fully conscious and aware in my mind, yet I couldn't open my eyes or move my body.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-16-2011, 10:39 AM

Sounds like a legitiment OBE from what I've read. But I've yet to have one.

blastingas10 · 12-16-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Sounds like a legitiment OBE from what I've read. But I've yet to have one.

I believe I have had lucid dreams before, and this certainly seemed different.

Do you believe in the soul, Conan?

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-16-2011, 11:00 AM

I think of we define our consciousness, our "us-ness" as being our soul, then of course I do. But that doesnt mean I inherently believe it can go places, or survive after death. I think it's entirely possible that when we die we simply cease to exist, conscious soul and all. On the other hand, there are a lot of genuinely interesting stories about the concept of a soul free from the body, and I'd love to cling to the idea of some kind of life after death – but I reserve my call for now.

blastingas10 · 12-16-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

I think of we define our consciousness, our "us-ness" as being our soul, then of course I do. But that doesnt mean I inherently believe it can go places, or survive after death. I think it's entirely possible that when we die we simply cease to exist, conscious soul and all. On the other hand, there are a lot of genuinely interesting stories about the concept of a soul free from the body, and I'd love to cling to the idea of some kind of life after death – but I reserve my call for now.

I completely agree. Of course I'd like to believe there is life after death, but I can't be certain that there is such a thing. Being someone who used to speak of a past-life as a child, I find cases like that to be very interesting.

It certainly seems possible that we could simply cease to exist when we die. But I also think that the notion of life after death is possible.

One thing I feel certain about is that there is much more to life than what we understand. And I don't believe that science will ever truly be able to explain why we are here.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-16-2011, 11:16 AM

Agreed, but I don't think science intends to ever do just that. They'll examine how and when but why, at least in this sense, is left up to each one of us.

mr dave · 12-16-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Wow, thanks for that experience mr. dave! That's really interesting, as I've previously heard that viewing your body or looking back on it once you "leave" it, in whatever sense that implies, will rip you out of your experience. Seems this happened to you. I'll have to remember not to do that if I ever manage to have one, which given my current progress, doesn't seem as unlikely as it did just this morning. I've only really started meditating recently and I've been really impressed with the benefits (both practical like relaxation and experimental like astral projection.)

It's all good. Good luck with further experiments into your consciousness haha

The main reason I tried looking back onto myself was because I remember a story from one of my Aunt's who claimed to have an OBE years ago where she passed out on a couch then woke up floating near the ceiling of the room and looking down onto herself. She considered it one of the scariest things she'd ever felt (especially where she wasn't meditating or trying to induce any sort of supernatural experience - she just wanted to sleep).

Don't really know what else to add to this thread besides the fact that I'm very much in agreement with Tore's position on drugs in regards to the matter, especially in regards to how people tend to misinterpret the effect of feeling wise with actually being wise. I'm of the belief that there's a significant difference in putting yourself into a trance through mental exercise vs using drugs to induce the same trance and that difference also applies to the value and overall growth involved in the matter. If you can't do it without the crutch (drugs) then you really can't do it on your own.

I don't want to come across like an anti-drug PSA, I still smoke weed, whatever. Do what you like, but I'll always take the person who can experience the weird stuff sober more seriously than the druggie going on and on about their latest 'mind blowing' voyage into the unknown.

Mrd00d · 12-16-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

I completely agree. Of course I'd like to believe there is life after death, but I can't be certain that there is such a thing. Being someone who used to speak of a past-life as a child, I find cases like that to be very interesting.

It certainly seems possible that we could simply cease to exist when we die. But I also think that the notion of life after death is possible.

One thing I feel certain about is that there is much more to life than what we understand. And I don't believe that science will ever truly be able to explain why we are here.

I'm a follower of the reincarnation, we are all the same person philosophy. I believe after death, our energy spreads out and we start a new life, whether as a tree, an animal, another person. Hell, maybe it's all happening at once. I'm not sure about what the details are. But I feel confident about dying and being reborn. I don't feel like this is my first run-through of life. Deja vu experiences abound, sometimes from the perspectives of others (like oh I remember this, but the angle is wrong... that guy over there... I was that guy already) Strange, but possible.

Howard the Duck · 12-16-2011, 09:37 PM

i never had one, but i believe in astral projection

same as i believe in levitation

they're both possible, even if i lack empritical evidence, it's just clueless belief

12-16-2011, 10:39 AM	#33 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	Sounds like a legitiment OBE from what I've read. But I've yet to have one.

12-16-2011, 11:00 AM	#35 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	I think of we define our consciousness, our "us-ness" as being our soul, then of course I do. But that doesnt mean I inherently believe it can go places, or survive after death. I think it's entirely possible that when we die we simply cease to exist, conscious soul and all. On the other hand, there are a lot of genuinely interesting stories about the concept of a soul free from the body, and I'd love to cling to the idea of some kind of life after death – but I reserve my call for now.

12-16-2011, 11:16 AM	#37 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	Agreed, but I don't think science intends to ever do just that. They'll examine how and when but why, at least in this sense, is left up to each one of us.