War on Christmas

**Janszoon** · 12-11-2011, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

There's a "Christmas" decoration up in Sheffield City Centre which says:

Merry Christmas
Happy Chanukah
Happy Eid

Which for me is the perfect compromise. Yes, we live in a globalised, multi-cultural world, in which it is morally dubious to isolate a particular set of beliefs at the expense of others, but "Happy Holidays"? Seriously? It has no life, no meaning, nothing to represent the true meaning of the winter celebrations of any culture.

Happy Holidays epitomises the attempts to social groups to eliminate cultural identity and create one big global mess of non-identity. I love the differences in cultures, I love the different opinions and viewpoints they give. I don't want to lose the fact that I celebrate christmas (even though I'm not religious in any sense, as it has an entirely non-religious meaning to me). It's more than a holiday, it's different to a holiday, in the same way that I'm sure Chanukah or any islamic Eid has a particular meaning (although regrettably I don't know enough about either religion (yet) to confidently say so). The answer isn't to merge it all into one big grey boring mix, devoid of any noticeable identity, it's to learn to respect and marry the cultures of the world so that we can understand and respect the celebrations of others while preserving the... sanctity, for lack of a better word, of our own celebrations.

Conclusions: "Happy Holidays" is bull****. It's a cop out, cheap attempt to avoid a better solution to a problem that needs to be addressed. Do the conservative madmen have a point? Yes. Are they right to take the actions they do? Not really, but that particular group not understanding the concept of compromise is hardly news.

I completely disagree with what you're saying about "Happy Holidays". It's not some new thing being foisted upon people, it's the name and chorus of an incredibly popular 70 year old song by Irving Berlin and has been a very common (some might even say traditional) Christmas and New Years greeting for decades. It's only since the late 90s that idiots like Bill O'Reilly have decided that it's some kind of PC thing that need to fly into a rage about.

MoonlitSunshine · 12-11-2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomClancy11

I would like a more universal World to be honest. Screw saying three different greetings. A lot of "culture" does nothing more than create false differences and cause separation between different "groups" of people who are really equal.

Seriously? I disagree entirely. It's equivalent to a world where everyone likes the same music, everyone has the same accent, everyone likes the same things... Culture and upbringing is just another thing that makes us different and unique. To blame it for the animosity and aggression in the world is short-sighted. Take away one defining aspect, and the people looking to cause trouble will just look for another defining difference to cause trouble about. Solve the fact that people try to cause trouble and alienate due to differences, and we can properly revel in our differences.

@Jansz: It doesn't really matter whether it's ten years old or 100 years old, it's still millennia younger than the albeit religiously based festivals celebrated in winter, and it carries nowhere near the same meaning. I agree that it's wrong to "Rage" about it, but I still think that it is Overly PC.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 12-11-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I completely disagree with what you're saying about "Happy Holidays". It's not some new thing being foisted upon people, it's the name and chorus of an incredibly popular 70 year old song by Irving Berlin and has been a very common (some might even say traditional) Christmas and New Years greeting for decades. It's only since the late 90s that idiots like Bill O'Reilly have decided that it's some kind of PC thing that need to fly into a rage about.

I think it's only appropriate to wish "Happy Holidays" if you don't know the person well enough to know what their religion association is, but that should only be plausible for maybe your mailman or something of the sort. Or maybe for atheists, I guess, depending on their preference.

I don't know, I probably will always celebrate Christmas, not because I give a **** about some guy who didn't exist, but because I enjoy giving other people gifts and baking ****loads of Yule related food.

But I agree with Moonlit in that it really causes a lot of cultural erasure, and having one generic holiday is pretty goddamn boring.

**Goofle** · 12-11-2011, 09:23 AM

I don't mean take away differences in society, I am talking about a World where you are expected to be this and that based on where you are born or live.

MoonlitSunshine · 12-11-2011, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomClancy11

I don't mean take away differences in society, I am talking about a World where you are expected to be this and that based on where you are born or live.

But culture is a massive part of what defines those differences. I don't really understand what you mean by the second part: Are you saying that people are forced - either by expectation of their own society or others do be something by virtue of their upbringing? In that case, I would agree that that is a bad thing, but that's not a result of Culture, per se. It's a result of an abuse of power. Not all culture is great, but to start with the good things as a way to get to the bad... it's throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

**Goofle** · 12-11-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

But culture is a massive part of what defines those differences. I don't really understand what you mean by the second part: Are you saying that people are forced - either by expectation of their own society or others do be something by virtue of their upbringing? In that case, I would agree that that is a bad thing, but that's not a result of Culture, per se. It's a result of an abuse of power. Not all culture is great, but to start with the good things as a way to get to the bad... it's throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Yes. I am on tapatalk at the moment sat in a car. Won't be able to express myself properly. Post again later.

TheBig3 · 12-11-2011, 09:42 AM

I don't know why Fox hates Thanksgiving and NYE.

But seriously folks, I think the Daily Show caught them doing a piece on stores that reverted to "Merry Christmas" but asked in the story if it was just a way to "make a quick buck."

As top officials at the NRA used to say, theres value in the fight, not in the victory. Fox is just smacking the Bee's nest of lunatic social conservatives who think we're all going to be Spanish-speaking Muslims owned by China in 20 years. I don't think its a real issue to them, its prostitution at its finest.

**** Christmas.

~~Rubato~~ · 12-11-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

"Happy Holidays" is bull****. It's a cop out, cheap attempt to avoid a better solution to a problem that needs to be addressed. Do the conservative madmen have a point? Yes. Are they right to take the actions they do? Not really, but that particular group not understanding the concept of compromise is hardly news.

If Christmas was being censored I could see your point, but as far as I'm aware Happy holidays is optional. For those that are indifferent it provides a more polite way of addressing the fact that not everyone is [insert major religion here]. I agree that painting the entire world in one boring shade is a rather stupid solution and goes against the whole idea of being multi-cultural but I don't think using the term "happy holidays" is going to lead us down a slippery slope.

MoonlitSunshine · 12-11-2011, 10:04 AM

I'd agree with you if it weren't threatening to be all-pervading. I know of a number of places, school etc in the UK that have always had "Christmas Fairs" for christmas presents etc., that now have to refer to them as a "Winter Wonderland" due to pressure from PC committees. If it's used simply in a case where you're unsure what the religious beliefs or otherwise of the person you are talking to are, then sure, use a generalised term, but to replace traditions with it, is something I am seeing more and more, and something that I fear will spread if left unchecked.

~~Rubato~~ · 12-11-2011, 10:37 AM

Are the traditions really under threat? They may be stuck with silly names but they still scream Christmas. In the case of public schools I could see it as a temporary fix until they have the necessary resources to address all religions, otherwise some kids may feel left out, although most probably don't give a damn what you call it.

12-11-2011, 09:42 AM	#27 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	I don't know why Fox hates Thanksgiving and NYE. But seriously folks, I think the Daily Show caught them doing a piece on stores that reverted to "Merry Christmas" but asked in the story if it was just a way to "make a quick buck." As top officials at the NRA used to say, theres value in the fight, not in the victory. Fox is just smacking the Bee's nest of lunatic social conservatives who think we're all going to be Spanish-speaking Muslims owned by China in 20 years. I don't think its a real issue to them, its prostitution at its finest. **** Christmas. __________________ I've moved to a new address

12-11-2011, 10:04 AM	#29 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	I'd agree with you if it weren't threatening to be all-pervading. I know of a number of places, school etc in the UK that have always had "Christmas Fairs" for christmas presents etc., that now have to refer to them as a "Winter Wonderland" due to pressure from PC committees. If it's used simply in a case where you're unsure what the religious beliefs or otherwise of the person you are talking to are, then sure, use a generalised term, but to replace traditions with it, is something I am seeing more and more, and something that I fear will spread if left unchecked. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

12-11-2011, 10:37 AM	#30 (permalink)
~~Rubato~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 230	Are the traditions really under threat? They may be stuck with silly names but they still scream Christmas. In the case of public schools I could see it as a temporary fix until they have the necessary resources to address all religions, otherwise some kids may feel left out, although most probably don't give a damn what you call it.