The Philosophical Debate Thread

Mr. Charlie · 02-26-2016, 09:58 AM

Ever heard of Shunryu Suzuki? You should have. I posted a video of his a few pages back. You better go back and watch it. All of it. I will be asking questions later.

Here he is again:

I'll make Buddhists of every one of you yet, you'll see. And after that, well.... I might become one myself too.

TrickTheTeeVee · 03-10-2016, 03:35 AM

So, as far as I have understood, the bulk of philosophy sets out to understand what is meant by existence as it stands in opposition to that which does not exist.
Yet, (setting aside that time is relative to mass) compared to the amount of time that matter has existed, conscious life has existed for a negligible amount of time. (at least locally and as far as we can tell)
The bulk of time has passed without one's existence having the ability to observe (and name) it.
Many philosophies claim some semblance of humility, separation, or stoicism, but then draw comparisons to things that are not only finite, but subjective to our short existence.
Wouldn't true emptiness focus more on the length of time that passed without our existence, rather than the miniscule portion which the self occupies and refers to existence?
And wouldn't that realization and acceptance of the reality of our place in things deter explaining what "existence" is to other people, thus rendering this truth hidden from those that do not come up with it on their own and leaving the written philosophical world awash with many short sighted ideas of what "existence" is?

Or (as in rough solipsism) is there no such thing as nonexistence, since, without recognition nothing exists, and before someone "saw" 'X' it it did not exist? (:

Mr. Charlie · 03-10-2016, 03:24 PM

I've no time for abstract philosophy, sorry, only practical philosophy. Practical philosophy like this:

MIND

As the fletcher whittles
And makes straight his arrows,
So the master directs
His straying thoughts.

Like a fish out of water,
Stranded on the shore,
Thoughts thrash and quiver.
For how can they shake off desire?

They tremble, they are unsteady,
They wander at their will.
It is good to control them,
And to master them brings happiness.

But how subtle they are,
How elusive!
The task is to quiet them,
And by ruling them to find happiness.

With single-mindedness
The master quells his thoughts,
He ends their wandering.
Seated in the cave of the heart,
He finds freedom.

How can a troubled mind
Understand the way?
If a man is disturbed
He will never be filled with knowledge.
An untroubled mind,
No longer seeking to consider
What is right and what is wrong,
A mind beyond judgements,
Watches and understands.
Know that the body is a fragile jar,
And make a castle of your mind.
In every trial
Let understanding fight for you
To defend what you have won.

For soon the body is discarded.
Then what does it feel?
A useless log of wood, it lies on the ground.
Then what does it know?

Your worst enemy cannot harm you
As much as your own thoughts, unguarded.

But once mastered,
No one can help you as much,
Not even your father or your mother.

- Buddha

TrickTheTeeVee · 03-17-2016, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

I've time ... only practical philosophy...

I was soldering together various cables in the serpentine mess that I call my music room, when I entangled my dominant leg and (despite any knowledge of physics that I have gleaned and the physical agility I have built) tripped, falling into a deep youtube hole.
I landed somewhere around this video and was curious what you though about the perspective herein...

p.s. this video contains what some would consider "bad" words

grindy · 03-17-2016, 12:41 AM

^tl;dw
Please summarize.

Edit: I know this guy's fitness videos.
Pretty hilarious that he does philosophy now.

TrickTheTeeVee · 03-17-2016, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

^tl;dw
Please summarize.

In a world without limit, I don't mince words.
With a goal of learning, time is a commodity worth paying.

The Batlord · 03-17-2016, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrickTheTeeVee

In a world without limit, I don't mince words.
With a goal of learning, time is a commodity worth paying.

TrickTheTeeVee · 03-18-2016, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

...

How did it take you this long to meme me? I have been spreading the douche like mayo on the a 4th of July.

I guess technically it isn't even a meme, just a vanilla picture, pasted in so.... i'll try harder if you promise to?

Mr. Charlie · 01-31-2017, 08:25 AM

Remember when I used to post loads in this thread? Yeah, me too. We looked at Zen, didn't we, yes we did, and it's parents Taoism and Buddhism, Epicurus too I think, maybe a few others. Well I'm back! No more Taoism, I promise, well... not for a little while anyway.

Today we're gonna be looking at Epictetus. Who? Epictetus! Exciting, right? You betya.

So who was Epictetus? He was an ex-slave who, after being granted freedom, became a Stoic philosopher. What's so special about him? Well, despite being a slave and made lame by an unkindly master, he remained calm and cheerful. Or to put it another way - he had what most would regard as a bloody awful life but he didn't whine or even feel bad about it. But most importantly, his words are still relevant today.

Good books on Epictetus I hear you cry? Enchiridion (Dover Thrift Editions) is a good little book and consists solely of his teachings, and also Discourses and Selected Writings (Penguin Classics) which is a little more fleshed out and arguably the better read. If you like Marcus Aurelius and Seneca, and even Buddhist psychology, then you'll probably enjoy Epictetus. So what was his teaching? This:

Men are disturbed, not by things, but by what they think of things.

Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants.

If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.

Attach yourself to what is spiritually superior, regardless of what other people think or do. Hold to your true aspirations no matter what is going on around you.

It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows.

None is a slave whose acts are free.

All religions must be tolerated… for every man must get to heaven in his own way.

First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak.

Seek not the good in external things; seek it in yourselves.

He who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at.

Any person capable of angering you becomes your master.

I am not Eternity, but a human being—a part of the whole, as an hour is part of the day. I must come like the hour, and like the hour must pass!

No thing great is created suddenly, any more than a bunch of grapes or a fig. If you tell me that you desire a fig, I answer you that there must be time. Let it first blossom, then bear fruit, then ripen.

A man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things.

A ship should not ride on a single anchor, nor life on a single hope.

Even as the Sun doth not wait for prayers and incantations to rise, but shines forth and is welcomed by all: so thou also wait not for clapping of hands and shouts and praise to do thy duty; nay, do good of thine own accord, and thou wilt be loved like the Sun.

Don’t seek to have events happen as you wish, but wish them to happen as they do happen, and all will be well with you.

What a man.

All that copying n pasting when I could have posted this:

03-17-2016, 12:41 AM	#195 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	^tl;dw Please summarize. Edit: I know this guy's fitness videos. Pretty hilarious that he does philosophy now. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

01-31-2017, 08:25 AM	#199 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	Remember when I used to post loads in this thread? Yeah, me too. We looked at Zen, didn't we, yes we did, and it's parents Taoism and Buddhism, Epicurus too I think, maybe a few others. Well I'm back! No more Taoism, I promise, well... not for a little while anyway. Today we're gonna be looking at Epictetus. Who? Epictetus! Exciting, right? You betya. So who was Epictetus? He was an ex-slave who, after being granted freedom, became a Stoic philosopher. What's so special about him? Well, despite being a slave and made lame by an unkindly master, he remained calm and cheerful. Or to put it another way - he had what most would regard as a bloody awful life but he didn't whine or even feel bad about it. But most importantly, his words are still relevant today. Good books on Epictetus I hear you cry? Enchiridion (Dover Thrift Editions) is a good little book and consists solely of his teachings, and also Discourses and Selected Writings (Penguin Classics) which is a little more fleshed out and arguably the better read. If you like Marcus Aurelius and Seneca, and even Buddhist psychology, then you'll probably enjoy Epictetus. So what was his teaching? This: Men are disturbed, not by things, but by what they think of things. Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants. If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid. Attach yourself to what is spiritually superior, regardless of what other people think or do. Hold to your true aspirations no matter what is going on around you. It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows. None is a slave whose acts are free. All religions must be tolerated… for every man must get to heaven in his own way. First learn the meaning of what you say, and then speak. Seek not the good in external things; seek it in yourselves. He who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at. Any person capable of angering you becomes your master. I am not Eternity, but a human being—a part of the whole, as an hour is part of the day. I must come like the hour, and like the hour must pass! No thing great is created suddenly, any more than a bunch of grapes or a fig. If you tell me that you desire a fig, I answer you that there must be time. Let it first blossom, then bear fruit, then ripen. A man should so live that his happiness shall depend as little as possible on external things. A ship should not ride on a single anchor, nor life on a single hope. Even as the Sun doth not wait for prayers and incantations to rise, but shines forth and is welcomed by all: so thou also wait not for clapping of hands and shouts and praise to do thy duty; nay, do good of thine own accord, and thou wilt be loved like the Sun. Don’t seek to have events happen as you wish, but wish them to happen as they do happen, and all will be well with you. What a man. All that copying n pasting when I could have posted this: Last edited by Mr. Charlie; 01-31-2017 at 08:46 AM.

02-26-2016, 09:58 AM	#191 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	Ever heard of Shunryu Suzuki? You should have. I posted a video of his a few pages back. You better go back and watch it. All of it. I will be asking questions later. Here he is again: I'll make Buddhists of every one of you yet, you'll see. And after that, well.... I might become one myself too.

03-10-2016, 03:35 AM	#192 (permalink)
TrickTheTeeVee Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 12	So, as far as I have understood, the bulk of philosophy sets out to understand what is meant by existence as it stands in opposition to that which does not exist. Yet, (setting aside that time is relative to mass) compared to the amount of time that matter has existed, conscious life has existed for a negligible amount of time. (at least locally and as far as we can tell) The bulk of time has passed without one's existence having the ability to observe (and name) it. Many philosophies claim some semblance of humility, separation, or stoicism, but then draw comparisons to things that are not only finite, but subjective to our short existence. Wouldn't true emptiness focus more on the length of time that passed without our existence, rather than the miniscule portion which the self occupies and refers to existence? And wouldn't that realization and acceptance of the reality of our place in things deter explaining what "existence" is to other people, thus rendering this truth hidden from those that do not come up with it on their own and leaving the written philosophical world awash with many short sighted ideas of what "existence" is? Or (as in rough solipsism) is there no such thing as nonexistence, since, without recognition nothing exists, and before someone "saw" 'X' it it did not exist? (:

03-10-2016, 03:24 PM	#193 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	I've no time for abstract philosophy, sorry, only practical philosophy. Practical philosophy like this: MIND As the fletcher whittles And makes straight his arrows, So the master directs His straying thoughts. Like a fish out of water, Stranded on the shore, Thoughts thrash and quiver. For how can they shake off desire? They tremble, they are unsteady, They wander at their will. It is good to control them, And to master them brings happiness. But how subtle they are, How elusive! The task is to quiet them, And by ruling them to find happiness. With single-mindedness The master quells his thoughts, He ends their wandering. Seated in the cave of the heart, He finds freedom. How can a troubled mind Understand the way? If a man is disturbed He will never be filled with knowledge. An untroubled mind, No longer seeking to consider What is right and what is wrong, A mind beyond judgements, Watches and understands. Know that the body is a fragile jar, And make a castle of your mind. In every trial Let understanding fight for you To defend what you have won. For soon the body is discarded. Then what does it feel? A useless log of wood, it lies on the ground. Then what does it know? Your worst enemy cannot harm you As much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered, No one can help you as much, Not even your father or your mother. - Buddha