Americas Prison Systems

Mr November · 06-22-2011, 01:30 AM

Prisons should be places that give inmates the tools that allow them not to recommit crime ones they're released. Tools like job skills, relevant education, and good mental and physical health.

The truth is that there is no justice. No amount of retribution will undue a crime already committed. Writing these people off and not caring doesn't make you a hard person, it just makes you either stupid, apathetic toward the future crime these people may commit, or both.

You also have to think about the kind of lives that many of the inmates may have lived before. Being raised poor, surrounded by violence, and being put in an environment where crime is a part of local culture... that's where effective prevention would have to begin. People aren't criminals because they're "pricks" they're criminals because that's what society raised them to be.

djchameleon · 06-22-2011, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

You also have to think about the kind of lives that many of the inmates may have lived before. Being raised poor, surrounded by violence, and being put in an environment where crime is a part of local culture... that's where effective prevention would have to begin. People aren't criminals because they're "pricks" they're criminals because that's what society raised them to be.

to piggyback off of that.

Those so called job skills that they learn in prison. No one is going to hire them when they get out because of their record.

They will have the hardest time finding a job and go back to doing the same things that got them locked up in the first place because they have a family to support

Bloozcrooz · 06-22-2011, 02:03 AM

Obvoiusly you've never worked in the oilfield where part of the criteria you have to meet is having done time before. You just have to know what kind of jobs to look for and where to find them. More than likely your not going to be manager of Dilliards if you have have an aggravated assualt charge on you. So your choices do become limited but not completley hopeless. Just that most the available ones that are willing to hire you are very physical hands on labor type jobs but are also very good paying paying jobs with room for advancing. So if your a mama's boy whos never been in a real manly work environment and may be a little skittish about having to share a room with someone who's done time. I wouldnt advise this career choice for you, you may want to take a different route.

Back on topic though, as far as rehibilitation I think it can happen and does work for some. I've seen people change they're lives and take advantage of a second chance.
Then there are those who just dont care to change and become worse than they were before and become a product of the system. I dont think everyone in prison is a total complete waste of space and time.

There are people with spotless records who far more deserve to be where some inmates have landed themselves, or who have had to do time before.

djchameleon · 06-22-2011, 02:05 AM

yes because there are plenty of oil fields in NY!

Guybrush · 06-22-2011, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

What are the rates for rehabilitation in your country?

I had a quick look on google, but I couldn't find anything .. norwegian prisons are very different from US prisons. There's also been experiments with a more "cushy" type of prison here and I believe it's been very good at rehabilitating inmates. Here's an article on one of them.

Where convicts live the good life

Regarding more "standard" prisons, I found this bit of info from another article. It has some numbers in it, but it's not very detailed :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time

Halden, Norway's second largest prison, with a capacity of 252 inmates, opened on April 8. It embodies the guiding principles of the country's penal system: that repressive prisons do not work and that treating prisoners humanely boosts their chances of reintegrating into society. "When they arrive, many of them are in bad shape," Hoidal says, noting that Halden houses drug dealers, murderers and rapists, among others. "We want to build them up, give them confidence through education and work and have them leave as better people." Countries track recidivism rates differently, but even an imperfect comparison suggests the Norwegian model works. Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%. Of course, a low level of criminality gives Norway a massive advantage. Its prison roll lists a mere 3,300, or 69 per 100,000 people, compared with 2.3 million in the U.S., or 753 per 100,000 — the highest rate in the world.

Source : Norway's Halden Fengsel Prison: Humane Rehab for Inmates - TIME

djchameleon · 06-22-2011, 04:51 AM

I bet if you saw the figures/breakdown for how many of those prisoners returned back to US prisons, it would be a high percentage of drug related prisoners returning back

with the example that I gave earlier

**Janszoon** · 06-22-2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I had a quick look on google, but I couldn't find anything .. norwegian prisons are very different from US prisons. There's also been experiments with a more "cushy" type of prison here and I believe it's been very good at rehabilitating inmates. Here's an article on one of them.

Where convicts live the good life

I saw a news story a while back about that place and thought it was very interesting. I'm curious if something like that would work here or not.

Guybrush · 06-22-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I saw a news story a while back about that place and thought it was very interesting. I'm curious if something like that would work here or not.

From a strict rehabilitation point of view, it can't be worse than the large and tough american prisons which seem to create a culture where you have to be tough to survive. In the worst case prison scenario, someone serving a sentence f.ex for selling drugs may become an even more hardened criminal by the time his or her sentence is over. I generally think it's better if a prison sentence prepares the criminal for a lawful life on the outside rather than teach them how to survive in a world ruled by tooth and claw.

I think those who think that prisoners deserve a beating, like The Virgin, are not thinking about what happens when these people who have taken their beatings and served their sentences are reintroduced into society.

**Janszoon** · 06-22-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

From a strict rehabilitation point of view, it can't be worse than the large and tough american prisons which seem to create a culture where you have to be tough to survive. In the worst case prison scenario, someone serving a sentence f.ex for selling drugs may become an even more hardened criminal by the time his or her sentence is over. I generally think it's better if a prison sentence prepares the criminal for a lawful life on the outside rather than teach them how to survive in a world ruled by tooth and claw.

I certainly agree with that, and as you know from our previous conversations, I'm very opposed to people serving prison time for drug offenses in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I think those who think that prisoners deserve a beating, like The Virgin, are not thinking about what happens when these people who have taken their beatings and served their sentences are reintroduced into society.

Exactly. I think viewing prison sentences as retribution instead of rehabilitation is extremely counter-productive.

djchameleon · 06-22-2011, 10:53 AM

We have minimum security prisons that are similar to that and pretty "cushy" but I don't think they are structured in the same way

06-22-2011, 01:30 AM	#11 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	Prisons should be places that give inmates the tools that allow them not to recommit crime ones they're released. Tools like job skills, relevant education, and good mental and physical health. The truth is that there is no justice. No amount of retribution will undue a crime already committed. Writing these people off and not caring doesn't make you a hard person, it just makes you either stupid, apathetic toward the future crime these people may commit, or both. You also have to think about the kind of lives that many of the inmates may have lived before. Being raised poor, surrounded by violence, and being put in an environment where crime is a part of local culture... that's where effective prevention would have to begin. People aren't criminals because they're "pricks" they're criminals because that's what society raised them to be.