Do atheists believe that Jesus existed?

Neapolitan · 06-15-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Oh okay, so you know what you were saying above what incorrect then.

I said 'in the form of...' I didn't say 'so-and-so were...' so maybe it was unclear and maybe there was a slight misunderstanding.

Whoever wrote Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John each had a specific audience that person was concerned with and whoever that person was who wrote that Gospel (whether the writer either had first or maybe second hand information) that person had a record for that community of believes, the (anonymous) writer was (something like) a mediator between those who knew Jesus Christ and that community where that specific Gospel was used.

Revolutionarypunk · 07-04-2011, 01:29 PM

I believe he was a real person.
But, I do not believe in his morals, and powers, and his story.

Buzzov*en · 07-07-2011, 02:35 PM

Don't believe any of it.

Metal Connoisseur · 08-04-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzov*en

Don't believe any of it.

If you're doubting the existence of Christ, then you are essentially denying ancient history as a whole. The Roman historian Tacitus and ancient hebrew historian Josephus have chronicled the life and times of Jesus in their writings and histories. So to deny them would essentially be the equivalent of denying all written history.

**Janszoon** · 08-04-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur

If you're doubting the existence of Christ, then you are essentially denying ancient history as a whole. The Roman historian Tacitus and ancient hebrew historian Josephus have chronicled the life and times of Jesus in their writings and histories. So to deny them would essentially be the equivalent of denying all written history.

Not really. A little digging on the topic reveals that it's not as ironclad as some people would have you believe.

Howard the Duck · 08-04-2011, 09:28 PM

it could have been another Jesus, i think this was mentioned earlier

**Janszoon** · 08-04-2011, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

it could have been another Jesus, i think this was mentioned earlier

Also, both Tacitus and Josephus were writing about it decades after the fact. It's not as if they were witnesses or even contemporaries of Jesus.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 08-05-2011, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur

If you're doubting the existence of Christ, then you are essentially denying ancient history as a whole. The Roman historian Tacitus and ancient hebrew historian Josephus have chronicled the life and times of Jesus in their writings and histories. So to deny them would essentially be the equivalent of denying all written history.

Buzzov*en is a troll, no need to even reply to his posts.

Per the ideals of the thread, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for the existence of a man named Jesus. His existence is usually a given, seeing as how he has been named in numerous religious texts. It's usually his works that are brought into question, not his mere existence, so this seems like a step backwards to me.

Metal Connoisseur · 08-05-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Also, both Tacitus and Josephus were writing about it decades after the fact. It's not as if they were witnesses or even contemporaries of Jesus.

They might not have been contemporaries but usually most written histories come after the fact of an event anyway. Furthermore, Suetonius and Pliny the Younger also wrote of Christ. I don't see why pagan writers would have a reason to conspire and make up Jesus for future generations. They were simply chronicling the issue of Christians stirring up trouble by refusing to conform to the Greco-Roman pantheon of gods that all conquered cultures were expected to buy into.

The historical proof of Jesus as a man is about as solid as anything else in ancient history. Obviously historiography plays a huge role in what is given to us in that the victor always gets to tell the story but that's all we have to go off of.

Howard the Duck · 08-05-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur

They might not have been contemporaries but usually most written histories come after the fact of an event anyway. Furthermore, Suetonius and Pliny the Younger also wrote of Christ. I don't see why pagan writers would have a reason to conspire and make up Jesus for future generations. They were simply chronicling the issue of Christians stirring up trouble by refusing to conform to the Greco-Roman pantheon of gods that all conquered cultures were expected to buy into.

The historical proof of Jesus as a man is about as solid as anything else in ancient history. Obviously historiography plays a huge role in what is given to us in that the victor always gets to tell the story but that's all we have to go off of.

the entire Bible is based on what the victor tells is true

if Lucifer's, Baal's or Beelzebub's tribe were victorious, instead of Yahweh's, we'd have a very much different Bible

07-07-2011, 02:35 PM	#83 (permalink)
Buzzov*en Anxiety Hangover Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Gardenia Posts: 501	Don't believe any of it. __________________ Save the environment, shoot yourself in the head. And when there is no hope I'll smoke some crack I'll shoot some dope.

07-04-2011, 01:29 PM	#82 (permalink)
Revolutionarypunk Groupie Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 37	I believe he was a real person. But, I do not believe in his morals, and powers, and his story.