Can God Give Free Will?

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 05-30-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Say on a hot summer day, you saw your friend pick up a hamburger that he found in a trash can and before he started to eat it you said "No don't, that's a bad idea." He say "Why?" And you said "Food poisoning - I don't want you to get sick, I don't want you to eat it." and he's like "no biggie," then you say "you'll suffer by not doing what I want you to do." So saying that doesn't mean you want him to suffer it's just that you know the consequences of eating bad food.

So... having sex out of wedlock is the equivalent of eating a rotten hamburger?

Freebase Dali · 05-30-2011, 01:03 AM

I really want to hear a theists argument against that. (not that I think I'm impenetrable... I'm actually curious)

dbpq90 · 05-30-2011, 01:36 AM

^^To me, it just kinda brings the question what is beyond heaven and hell that would require, or be the cause of such a black or white scenario.....Would it be simply the nearness(heaven) or distance(hell)^^ between one and a deity? The oneness of all or the isolation of many(souls or energies)?

RVCA · 05-30-2011, 03:01 AM

I think I've simply decided that people who believe in a deity that interferes with human life on a personal scale... aren't worth my time

Paedantic Basterd · 05-30-2011, 08:47 PM

I don't see why God couldn't install a randomizing script into our programs.

Mr November · 05-30-2011, 08:52 PM

Can God move an immovable rock? Either he's all knowing or he's not.

Paedantic Basterd · 05-30-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

Can God move an immovable rock? Either he's all knowing or he's not.

Well, in that case, your question is, frankly, stupid. Any answer debunks God as we know it.

Mr November · 05-30-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Well, in that case, your question is, frankly, stupid. Any answer debunks God as we know it.

Well then they would call that a rhetorical question.

Paedantic Basterd · 05-30-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

Well then they would call that a rhetorical question.

Then why the heck is this a thread?

Don't answer that. It was rhetorical.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 05-30-2011, 09:29 PM

There's no way to prove free will, just like there's no way to prove predestination. Any action could be (mis)construed as being predestined, no matter how random. The idea of free will makes people feel empowered. The idea of predestination gives people an overall sense of security, with "everything happening according to God's plan."

I stand in the corner of free will. I would hate to think that "God" predestined millions of Jews to die in the Holocaust, 3,000+ people to die on 9/11, my uncle to die from a brain tumor, or me to go through a hellacious divorce (especially just to "test our faith" as Vanilla says). That would be pretty sh*tty in my opinion.

Why would "God" predestine people to go against his will? If he is all good, all knowing, and all powerful, why would he need to make us suffer in order to test our faith in him? The Bible says that he is a "jealous God." What does he have to be jealous of? Unless he has legitimate competition, why sweat it? It seems that he needs us to worship and obey him just as much as we "need" him. If everyone has free will, what if everyone chose to disobey him and follow Satan? According to him, the whole world would go to Hell, and he would be sitting alone in heaven with his thumb up his ass. What good does that do anyone?

With no proof of an afterlife, wouldn't it behove him to give us some incentive in THIS life to follow him?

05-30-2011, 01:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Freebase Dali Partying on the inside Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,584	I really want to hear a theists argument against that. (not that I think I'm impenetrable... I'm actually curious)

05-30-2011, 01:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
dbpq90 Groupie Join Date: May 2011 Location: USA Posts: 11	^^To me, it just kinda brings the question what is beyond heaven and hell that would require, or be the cause of such a black or white scenario.....Would it be simply the nearness(heaven) or distance(hell)^^ between one and a deity? The oneness of all or the isolation of many(souls or energies)?

05-30-2011, 03:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	I think I've simply decided that people who believe in a deity that interferes with human life on a personal scale... aren't worth my time

05-30-2011, 08:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I don't see why God couldn't install a randomizing script into our programs.

05-30-2011, 08:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	Can God move an immovable rock? Either he's all knowing or he's not.

05-30-2011, 09:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,814	There's no way to prove free will, just like there's no way to prove predestination. Any action could be (mis)construed as being predestined, no matter how random. The idea of free will makes people feel empowered. The idea of predestination gives people an overall sense of security, with "everything happening according to God's plan." I stand in the corner of free will. I would hate to think that "God" predestined millions of Jews to die in the Holocaust, 3,000+ people to die on 9/11, my uncle to die from a brain tumor, or me to go through a hellacious divorce (especially just to "test our faith" as Vanilla says). That would be pretty sh*tty in my opinion. Why would "God" predestine people to go against his will? If he is all good, all knowing, and all powerful, why would he need to make us suffer in order to test our faith in him? The Bible says that he is a "jealous God." What does he have to be jealous of? Unless he has legitimate competition, why sweat it? It seems that he needs us to worship and obey him just as much as we "need" him. If everyone has free will, what if everyone chose to disobey him and follow Satan? According to him, the whole world would go to Hell, and he would be sitting alone in heaven with his thumb up his ass. What good does that do anyone? With no proof of an afterlife, wouldn't it behove him to give us some incentive in THIS life to follow him?