Can God Give Free Will?

Neapolitan · 05-30-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

What should really be examined is that free will is, according to religion, only a two way street. In one hand, the choices you make will lead to damnation, and in the other, will lead to salvation. To me, the free will portion of this sort of choice is rigged. You can either obey the will of god, and go to heaven... or disobey, and spend eternity in hell. So in effect, what we (according to religion) have is simply the free will to decide whether we want to be rewarded, or punished. I suspect most folks would consider that a rigged game.
I suspect that most folks would consider that a scenario of "free to do what you want, but you'll suffer by not doing what I want you to do."

Say on a hot summer day, you saw your friend pick up a hamburger that he found in a trash can and before he started to eat it you said "No don't, that's a bad idea." He say "Why?" And you said "Food poisoning - I don't want you to get sick, I don't want you to eat it." and he's like "no biggie," then you say "you'll suffer by not doing what I want you to do." So saying that doesn't mean you want him to suffer it's just that you know the consequences of eating bad food.

Mr November · 05-30-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Say on a hot summer day, you saw your friend pick up a hamburger that he found in a trash can and before he started to eat it you said "No don't, that's a bad idea." He say "Why?" And you said "Food poisoning - I don't want you to get sick, I don't want you to eat it." and he's like "no biggie," then you say "you'll suffer by not doing what I want you to do." So saying that doesn't mean you want him to suffer it's just that you know the consequences of eating bad food.

Right but it's a different story if you put him in an empty white room with the hamburger, made him sit there starving, and also happened to be the one who ensured that the hamburger was food poisoned.

That's not a good analogy that I'm making, but just as an extension of the one you started let's say. And also add in the added bonus that you are psychic and you already knew whether he would eat the hamburger. So you created the situation knowing the result that would come of it. This more closely resembles the hypothetical situation of God.

Neapolitan · 05-30-2011, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

Right but it's a different story if you put him in an empty white room with the hamburger, made him sit there starving, and also happened to be the one who ensured that the hamburger was food poisoned.

That goes away from my example of between knowing something can happen and wanting/wishing for something to happen. I was trying to point out that just because God knows what can happen in the future because a result of people's immorality does not mean God wants people to be immoral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

That's not a good analogy that I'm making, but just as an extension of the one you started let's say. And also add in the added bonus that you are psychic and you already knew whether he would eat the hamburger. So you created the situation knowing the result that would come of it. This more closely resembles the hypothetical situation of God.

A perfectly benevolent God would not act malevolent.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 05-30-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Say on a hot summer day, you saw your friend pick up a hamburger that he found in a trash can and before he started to eat it you said "No don't, that's a bad idea." He say "Why?" And you said "Food poisoning - I don't want you to get sick, I don't want you to eat it." and he's like "no biggie," then you say "you'll suffer by not doing what I want you to do." So saying that doesn't mean you want him to suffer it's just that you know the consequences of eating bad food.

So... having sex out of wedlock is the equivalent of eating a rotten hamburger?