The Big Bang AKA Where The **** Did It All Start?

cardboard adolescent · 06-26-2011, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

CA, when I read text like what you posted, I notice that it's so vaguely formulated that it's largely up to the observer to try and give it meaning. He says the universe is a black hole with an event horizon, yet for what we know based on observation, our universe is expanding. The collective mass in the universe has no event horizon; light and matter is still travelling outwards from the big bang. If the universe is a black hole, where is it? And where is it's event horizon? He also freely mixes abstract ideas of spirituality with real macrophysics, suggesting that people who go on inward journeys become denser and have more gravity than others and that an example of such a person is Jesus. If people are stars, then these are equivalent of supernovas and this makes people gravitate towards them and makes them capable of f.ex starting religions.

If getting more enlightened also makes you heavier, then that sounds like a testable hypothesis to me, but I doubt you'd find evidence for it if you looked

All in all, it looks like complete bollocks formulated by someone arrogant enough to believe his vague and uneducated hypothesis about how the universe works - devoid of real substance or observational evidence and littered with the abuse of scientific jargon - is something worth teaching people. Believing it would be an excercise in stupidity as it would teach you to accept outlandish claims from a very poor source.

You should really trip more, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash_override

I'll admit that I am confused about the "nothing begins, nothing ends" part of the theory. As well as the "universe, within a universe". If these are true, then wouldn't it be true that not only would there always be something bigger in existence to find if you looked long enough, but the same could be said for smaller objects within both our world and the universe as a whole. If the entity that we call "the universe" is just a smaller object within a larger one, why couldn't there be another smaller "universe" within what we are existing in at this very moment? If we are even existing at all.

Furthermore, if any of this is true, then why are we still calling things that we theorize are not alone in making up "the universe", universe's themselves?

Huh? The theory says everything is a point. The notion of bigger/smaller is an illusion created by perspective. Points all the way down, points all the way up. Every point is the same size, because all points are sizeless. That's true equality. You and I might be different configurations of points, but we're still both points, and hence we are one. Be happy.

crash_override · 06-26-2011, 08:07 AM

So you're saying that the planet we call earth, and the marble sitting on my desk are both points, and there is no difference between them outside of what I perceive?

As for us all being one? How does that work? In our state of flesh, I could stab you and kill you (as you could to me) leaving one of us behind, the other to go on. We are two separate entities.

On a larger scale, thousands of people are killed, die, or hurt everyday. None of which affect me personally whatsoever, how can "we all be one" if this is the case?

The more I understand this logic the less I agree with it. Or maybe I don't understand it, maybe it doesn't understand me. But people are separate entities, in truth. While you can perceive that we are all one, all connected, I simply don't believe it's so. I could jump off a bridge right after posting this, and so long as you weren't directly under the point off which I jumped, it wouldn't affect you in the slightest. In fact, you'd have no idea I was dead unless another separate human entity were to convey that information to you.

It's a great mind bender to think about if you're in a happy place (i.e. a drug induced nirvana) but in cold dead reality, there's little to support it.

My theory is that we are infinitely flawed mortal creatures, who were lucky enough to be given a chance at life on this rock that just happened to be almost perfect to sustain our being. Yet, we are so ignorant to that fact that we have constantly seeked meaning to it all via religion, science, and philosophy and failed. We will continue to fail, the answer is all around us. We are here, we exist in our current place, state, and time. Nothing more.

As far as how it all started? That's a whole other beast. The Big Bang Theory is pretty hard to believe, how can something appear from nothingness. There has to be a base for the existence of anything. There has to be a foundation to everything that exists out there somewhere, maybe it's here, maybe it's everywhere, maybe we're in the ****ing matrix. I sure as hell believe that more than there being some all seeing god somewhere in a place called heaven judging us for everything we do. **** that idea.

jackhammer · 07-27-2011, 07:03 PM

As we know there is a force out there that scientists just cannot fathom out and that is 'dark matter'. It is invisible and makes up around 75% of our universe.

The Big Bang apparently sprang from 'nothing' but we know that there is no such thing as 'nothing'. Even in an airless vacuum activity exists so what if the 'dark energy' has always been here before the big bang and actually facilitated the process? Have scientists looked into this at all?

Anteater · 07-30-2011, 11:58 PM

They are looking into dark matter Lee (and dark energy too)...but at the end of the day, the only thing most of the qualified folk (astrophysicists and mathematicians and the like) who are looking into it are doing is attempting to squeeze in their findings with already established theories, and thus aren't getting a complete picture.

I sometimes think the human mind is too insular for its own good, and not completely unlike our current understanding of the universe: we observe certain guiding principles and formulate cause-and-effect in regards to brain function...and yet consciousness itself remains a black box that becomes relegated to a realm of subjectivity and mystery even among those who claim to have all the answers.

On top of all this, even fundamental phenomena such as gravity are changing radically as far as definition goes (in terms of what it really is), with a common consensus emerging that gravity itself doesn't even exist here in the material universe we live in. Rather, it is a force being projected from a reality beyond our own. And the implications of something like that once you bring in matter and energy into the equation...how's that for a mindfuck?

Strange times we are living in guys...strange times indeed.

jackhammer · 07-31-2011, 08:20 PM

Without getting too deep as it's late for me, you raise many salient points and because we are using 'human' understanding regarding the universe we still may be well out of whack regarding our understanding of things.

Just because the maths and equations we use to explain things doesn't automatically mean that they are correct thus far. We are probably miles out in our calculations for many things.

The only thing that is becoming apparent if we use our human deductions is that the universe follows many rigid patterns and codes and this has really scrambled my brain. It has started me to question a lot of things as if there is a whole design behind everything and surely it is not all just chance happenings.

Maybe there is someone punching code into a computer and seeing what is successful or not and it's all simulation. Damn I am getting too deep now!

cardboard adolescent · 07-31-2011, 09:29 PM

What are you looking for?

Sneer · 07-31-2011, 10:16 PM

I find the question of 'where did it all begin?' terrifying. I cannot even begin to fathom the concept of 'nothingness', but surely, at some point, that's all there must have been, right?

Uh, thinking about it is like staring into oblivion.

**Janszoon** · 07-31-2011, 10:18 PM

What if "where did it all start?" is the wrong question?

Freebase Dali · 07-31-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

I find the question of 'where did it all begin?' terrifying. I cannot even begin to fathom the concept of 'nothingness', but surely, at some point, that's all there must have been, right?

Uh, thinking about it is like staring into oblivion.

There's no such thing as nothing. That's why.

RVCA · 07-31-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

I find the question of 'where did it all begin?' terrifying. I cannot even begin to fathom the concept of 'nothingness', but surely, at some point, that's all there must have been, right?

Uh, thinking about it is like staring into oblivion.

No. It doesn't make sense to think of a time of "nothingness" before the Big Bang. Speaking in the most generic sense, the phrase "Big Bang" has two different meanings. On the one hand, it means that thing that happened fourteen billion years ago. On the other, it means event one, the start of all things.

It makes no sense, obviously, to talk about the event that came before event one. If there was an event before the one we currently believe to have been the first one, then that would be the first one. There is no before when you're talking about that-which-preceded-all.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible that there were events that occurred before that-thing-fourteen-billion-years-ago. It's just that we have no evidence of them. We have no reason to believe that they exist. Everything we've ever seen adds up to the conclusion that the thing that happened fourteen billion years ago was event one. Is it necessarily true that that's the case? No. But it's not reasonable to believe otherwise unless and until some kind of evidence to that effect makes itself known.

07-27-2011, 07:03 PM	#73 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	As we know there is a force out there that scientists just cannot fathom out and that is 'dark matter'. It is invisible and makes up around 75% of our universe. The Big Bang apparently sprang from 'nothing' but we know that there is no such thing as 'nothing'. Even in an airless vacuum activity exists so what if the 'dark energy' has always been here before the big bang and actually facilitated the process? Have scientists looked into this at all? __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

07-31-2011, 08:20 PM	#75 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	Without getting too deep as it's late for me, you raise many salient points and because we are using 'human' understanding regarding the universe we still may be well out of whack regarding our understanding of things. Just because the maths and equations we use to explain things doesn't automatically mean that they are correct thus far. We are probably miles out in our calculations for many things. The only thing that is becoming apparent if we use our human deductions is that the universe follows many rigid patterns and codes and this has really scrambled my brain. It has started me to question a lot of things as if there is a whole design behind everything and surely it is not all just chance happenings. Maybe there is someone punching code into a computer and seeing what is successful or not and it's all simulation. Damn I am getting too deep now! __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

07-31-2011, 10:16 PM	#77 (permalink)
Sneer Let it drip Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,430	I find the question of 'where did it all begin?' terrifying. I cannot even begin to fathom the concept of 'nothingness', but surely, at some point, that's all there must have been, right? Uh, thinking about it is like staring into oblivion. __________________ LastFM Sneer's Emporium of Sound Fright Team radio show

07-31-2011, 10:18 PM	#78 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	What if "where did it all start?" is the wrong question? __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

07-31-2011, 09:29 PM	#76 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	What are you looking for?