Sounds Like Bin Laden's Dead

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 05-04-2011, 03:51 PM

oh **** you Brennan

I'm just judging from what I saw on television, people were acting like it was big party times and I feel really icky about that. Relief, I can understand that, but partying? No thanks. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, and a lot of people have been reacting to that train of thought very ickily, making it seem as if we're UnAmerican or something.

Also it kind of irritates me this "Oh gawd that woman with Osama, what kind of person must she have been to be with him gawd!!!1111"...Gee, I don't know, probably a woman in a culture that has zero respect for women and no concept of women's rights that was forced to be with him? I find it highly unlikely that she was there out of her own volition.

right-track · 05-04-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Furthermore, that was another instance of America hanging out, minding its own business and we were attacked.

You're not seriously suggesting that the attack of 9/11 was totally unprovoked?
I'm not disagreeing with any of your other points Brennan, but come on!

I mean, did you think they did it just for a laugh?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 05-04-2011, 03:54 PM

To me, as someone who grew up right in the middle of the IRA's bombing campaign in the U.K. the overall feeling I have towards how some Americans are reacting to this is total naivety.

So you killed one guy, well great, enjoy celebrating that. But he hadn't done anything for nearly a decade and what are you going to do now that the next guy wants to make a name for himself & the guy after him wants to make a name for himself too, and the one after him... and so on & so on.

You were better off with him hiding in some bedroom somewhere doing nothing.

right-track · 05-04-2011, 03:57 PM

Urban's right. 30 years of living with terrorism taught both sides the need to eventually compromise. There really is no other end game.
Assassinating one man won't make a blind bit of difference.
If anything all that has been achieved is to create a void that will be filled by another of which you'll know less about.

Thom Yorke · 05-04-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

Well then I disagree with you. If this is a win, iI feel it's a far smaller win than alot of the masses celebrating believe it to be.

It's the ideals he had that need eliminating. In my opinion, that's where the threat is. It isn't currently decomposing at sea. Yeah, Bin Laden is dead but threats like 9/11 haven't died with him.

I understand the attitude you seem to have, Dirty. It seems to me that if people are raising questions of ethics or morals, you don't quite see it as being as simple as your country killing a human being, but rather who that human being is. You have said yourself that you personally don't see why anyone wouldn't agree with their decision to assasinate him, and I am not actually disagreeing with you on that one.

I guess where we do do differ though is that the death of the man, and just that man, is no more than a symbolic victory to me. It's a receipt, but no more.

Well, of course it's a symbolic victory; I don't think anyone is suggesting that terrorism died with bin Laden. But I don't think that makes it any less important. Osama bin Laden was the face of terrorism (not just the al-Qaeda) for years and years, and the way they killed him speaks more to the determination and perserverance of the Americans to hold terrorists accountable than anything. They didn't stop until they made sure the figurehead of terrorism was brought to justice, even though it took them 13 years to do it; I'm not really sure how one can make a bigger statement against terrorism.

midnight rain · 05-04-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

Urban's right. 30 years of living with terrorism taught both sides the need to eventually compromise. There really is no other end game.
Assassinating one man won't make a blind bit of difference.
If anything all that has been achieved is to create a void that will be filled by another of which you'll know less about.

You think it realistic that the Al Qaeda side would compromise though? I'm not sure America was given much of a choice in the matter after 9/11, I definitely see this as a positive. Not going after Osama would be telling them that what they did is ok, regardless of their reasons behind why they did it.

right-track · 05-04-2011, 04:09 PM

I'm also certain the U.S. Security forces are well aware of this philosophy.
Which begs a question.
If Bin Ladin was effectively inactive, why remove him?
If he was active, why remove him?

To raise the profile of a certain politician, perhaps?
There are other possible reasons which are far more sinister, but that's another story which is borderline conspiracy. Although perfectly plausible.

right-track · 05-04-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

You think it realistic that the Al Qaeda side would compromise though? I'm not sure America was given much of a choice in the matter after 9/11, I definitely see this as a positive. Not going after Osama would be telling them that what they did is ok, regardless of their reasons behind why they did it.

The trouble with terrorism is...there is no end game.
Only compromise.
To achieve this, both sides need to realise they are in a no win situation.
It took us 30+ years. Something the Israelis are only just realising.
How many more years and deaths will it take before both sides come to the same conclusion?

The clever thing is to monitor the terrorists using the information gained from years of intelligence.
Find out what they're up to and neutralise their actions. Not always possible, but the best option.
That's why I question the "need" to assassinate Bin Laden.

midnight rain · 05-04-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

The trouble with terrorism is...there is no end game.
Only compromise.
To achieve this, both sides need to realise they are in a no win situation.
It took us 30+ years. Something the Israelis are only just realising.
How many more years and deaths will it take before both sides come to the same conclusion?

The clever thing is to monitor the terrorists using the information gained from years of intelligence.
Find out what they're up to and neutralise their actions. Not always possible, but the best option.
That's why I question the "need" to assassinate Bin Laden.

Standly aside idly is not an option, as 9/11 and the Christmas Day Bombing Plot, etc. have proven. While I agree that monitoring their attacks is important, it can't always be prevented as 9/11 showed. I think the only option was to take action, Al Qaeda has proven ruthless, and utterly intolerant of America's way of life, regardless of whether it effected them or not. And yes, I know that Al Qaeda had it's reasons for 9/11 (U.S. presence in Saudia Arabia, etc.) but the fact that they chose 9/11 as the way to get their point across proves they are a terror group. Negotiating with them doesn't seem an option.

TheBig3 · 05-04-2011, 04:56 PM

I'd just like to say to everyone, but especially the pacifists, that the ****ing Dali Lama agrees with me. So take your protest signs and suck on it...

A Symbol Of Compassion, Dalai Lama Hints Bin Laden's Killing Was Justified : The Two-Way : NPR

05-04-2011, 03:54 PM	#333 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	To me, as someone who grew up right in the middle of the IRA's bombing campaign in the U.K. the overall feeling I have towards how some Americans are reacting to this is total naivety. So you killed one guy, well great, enjoy celebrating that. But he hadn't done anything for nearly a decade and what are you going to do now that the next guy wants to make a name for himself & the guy after him wants to make a name for himself too, and the one after him... and so on & so on. You were better off with him hiding in some bedroom somewhere doing nothing. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

05-04-2011, 04:56 PM	#340 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	I'd just like to say to everyone, but especially the pacifists, that the ****ing Dali Lama agrees with me. So take your protest signs and suck on it... A Symbol Of Compassion, Dalai Lama Hints Bin Laden's Killing Was Justified : The Two-Way : NPR __________________ I've moved to a new address

05-04-2011, 03:51 PM	#331 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	oh **** you Brennan I'm just judging from what I saw on television, people were acting like it was big party times and I feel really icky about that. Relief, I can understand that, but partying? No thanks. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, and a lot of people have been reacting to that train of thought very ickily, making it seem as if we're UnAmerican or something. Also it kind of irritates me this "Oh gawd that woman with Osama, what kind of person must she have been to be with him gawd!!!1111"...Gee, I don't know, probably a woman in a culture that has zero respect for women and no concept of women's rights that was forced to be with him? I find it highly unlikely that she was there out of her own volition.

05-04-2011, 03:57 PM	#334 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	Urban's right. 30 years of living with terrorism taught both sides the need to eventually compromise. There really is no other end game. Assassinating one man won't make a blind bit of difference. If anything all that has been achieved is to create a void that will be filled by another of which you'll know less about.

05-04-2011, 04:09 PM	#337 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	I'm also certain the U.S. Security forces are well aware of this philosophy. Which begs a question. If Bin Ladin was effectively inactive, why remove him? If he was active, why remove him? To raise the profile of a certain politician, perhaps? There are other possible reasons which are far more sinister, but that's another story which is borderline conspiracy. Although perfectly plausible.