Sounds Like Bin Laden's Dead

**Janszoon** · 05-01-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Well he didn't say Allah but they know God means Allah.

Hindus know God mean Allah? So that leaves them where exactly.

TheBig3 · 05-01-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

Because the only reason he's saying that is to appease two groups:

1. Religious nut cases who will call him the devil if he doesn't spew the typical presidential religious slogans.

2. Retarded voters who romanticize the presidency and are only looking to get the disney experience out of the speeches. He would say anything if it increased his chances of getting the votes of these sorry idiots.

In the end, these slogans are left over from a time when the USA was taken over by a bunch of people who engraved christianity into every aspect of government representation. The USA pulls its constitutional queues from the Napoleonic French. Napoleon created a french republic and made it secular. The reason he made it secular was because before that the monarchy used religion to validate its power. By secularization he removed the power invested into the royalty by the roman catholic church and eventually was recognized by the pope as a legitimate power.

Long story short, the USA is secular because they saw how religion can be used to validate invalid power. They learned a lesson from the French, and because they left the British Empire for a reason, they instilled that lesson in their constitution. They also did this because many of them were deists.. and perhaps they were deists for the latter reasons. THE POINT - THE USA IS SECULAR. And saying otherwise is a slap in the face to everyone who pays taxes, and lives in the USA, and expects equal treatment regardless of whether they believe in God they want representation in those speeches.

These stupid 50s slogans alienate hundreds of thousands. And just because we aren't the majority, doesn't mean that we have to bow to these stupid blows from the right wing and outdated tradition.

Answer your question?

It proved my fears. These, and I think many share your position, is a feeling. It isn't necessarily true. We're secular for a great many reasons. We don't oppress peoples religious views - as many other nations have. We have no national religion - as many other nations have and force you to pay tithes and taxes to.

Don't misconstrue "secular" as anti-religious.

TheBig3 · 05-01-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Hindus know God mean Allah? So that leaves them where exactly.

I don't know what you're talking about anymore.

RVCA · 05-01-2011, 11:55 PM

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Originally Posted by TheBig3

That's never been how the Constitution has been interpreted. In fact, since Adams and Jefferson both spoke freely with deist language, I don't think it was ever intended.

crash_override · 05-01-2011, 11:56 PM

Great, mission accomplished. Doesn't change much, the timing is nice for Obama, being that campaign months are approaching. I can't say I blame his people for putting a conservative spin on the speech, might as well soak up some of that patriot vote while the gettin' is good.

storymilo · 05-01-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

That's nice. It did anger me though. I have no problem with a president having whatever religious views he wants in his personal life, but I definitely have a problem with him injecting these views into something he is saying in an official capacity, especially when part of the speech he is making involves an attempt at saying that we are not involved in a religious war.

I guess we just differ there. A president who refrained from any sort of religious talk in any official setting might be nice, but I see that as a highly unlikely possibility. If someone says "God bless you" to me I am going to take it as a compliment and I'm going to be happy they said it, whether or not I believe in God and whether or not they are the president and allegedly separated from the church when it comes to official affairs (and I don't believe that Obama's Christian beliefs have any bearing on his decisions as president.) Perhaps if his speech had had more Christian themes I might feel differently.

TheBig3 · 05-01-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

If they were deists they would never support the phrase "God bless America" It's against everything they would have stood for.

Are you telling me they did not support that phrase? I'm just baffled right now. Is that what you're saying?

captaincaptain · 05-01-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Er, no, it doesn't. There is no god called "God" in Hinduism.

I'm sorry for not having my Thesaurus handy. God whether it's capitalized or not, whether it was in English or Afrikaans, it was meant as a general term. Other words I could've used are: deity, divine being, creator, absolute being.....

TheBig3 · 05-01-2011, 11:57 PM

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Originally Posted by RVCA

Didn't you back the masses when they called me arrogant for not getting into specifics?

CanwllCorfe · 05-01-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

We're secular for a great many reasons. We don't oppress peoples religious views - as many other nations have. We have no national religion - as many other nations have and force you to pay tithes and taxes to.

Don't misconstrue "secular" as anti-religious.

Agreed!

I'm really surprised at how angry people get by something I completely ignored. Or, well, didn't pay much attention to.