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Old 04-23-2011, 12:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tuna View Post
To be fair, one could argue that accomplishments (that result in pride) aren't any more under our control then, say, our race or appearance since our genetics and environment are responsible for decision-making. That gets into the debate about free will though.
What do you mean?
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What do you mean?
Basically if free will doesn't exist then we have nothing to take pride in because we have as much control over our accomplishments as the color of our skin. Unless your ok with taking pride in your skin color
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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To be fair, one could argue that accomplishments (that result in pride) aren't any more under our control then, say, our race or appearance since our genetics and environment are responsible for decision-making. That gets into the debate about free will though.
I think that you could make the argument that our accomplishments aren't completely rooted in us, but there is noticeable difference between being born into a certain race, and training and doing well in a marathon. It is a bit of a stretch to say that there is no difference in regards to responsibility.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think that you could make the argument that our accomplishments aren't completely rooted in us, but there is noticeable difference between being born into a certain race, and training and doing well in a marathon. It is a bit of a stretch to say that there is no difference in regards to responsibility.
Yeah I think it depends on your belief as to how much our actions are actually our decisions and not our conditioned responses to the things around us.

I'm not saying I believe what I posted earlier necessarily, but I do think it makes for an interesting debate.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hmm, that's a little too tenuous for my liking.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't think accomplishments should be the only source of pride. Shouldn't you be able to take pride in your culture? You surely didn't do anything to it. In fact, it is the way it is BECAUSE of the people before you.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Absolutely, pride is an invention of nature.
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Terence Hill, as recently confirmed during an interview to an Italian TV talk-show, was offered the role but rejected it because he considered it "too violent". Dustin Hoffman and John Travolta declined the role for the same reason. When Al Pacino was considered for the role of John Rambo, he turned it down when his request that Rambo be more of a madman was rejected.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't think accomplishments should be the only source of pride. Shouldn't you be able to take pride in your culture? You surely didn't do anything to it. In fact, it is the way it is BECAUSE of the people before you.
It isn't a matter of whether one should or shouldn't take pride in one's culture, it is a matter of whether or not that is possible. Pride, as in self-esteem, cannot be found in something that is not of ourself. We can value our culture, and we can be content that we exist in such a culture, but we cannot take pride in our culture.
Last edited by Inuzuka Skysword; 04-23-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That's what I thought. I was confused on whether the point was being made that pride could only come from accomplishment. That definitely isn't the case, but I think it's mainly just because that's what's being discussed right now.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That's what I thought. I was confused on whether the point was being made that pride could only come from accomplishment. That definitely isn't the case, but I think it's mainly just because that's what's being discussed right now.
It most definitely is the case if the term pride can't be applied to something like cultural achievements.
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