aliens

RVCA · 04-26-2011, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

Being an atheist who likes to argue, I've made that same point more times than I can count RVCA. And I think I touched on that before in the same post you were quoting.

The difference is - I don't mean special as in chosen or pre-ordained or something. I mean special like a four leaf clover or an eclipse - except an unimaginably more rare event than either of those.

The fact that we DO exist can create the illusion that we exist for a reason. Well we would say the same thing if things had happened totally different and in a whole other place. But the point is - not to let the fact that we do exist create the illusion that we aren't special. Not to let it make us believe that it happens all the time. Because I don't believe that's necessarily true.

I understand what you're saying, but even if the chance that life as complex as we are could come to exist elsewhere in the universe is "unimaginably" rare, you have to bear in mind that the universe is "unimaginably" vast. I just refuse to accept that we're alone, and I suppose that makes me as bad as the religious because that's something I hold on faith.

Neapolitan · 04-26-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

That's 83 billion billion (83 with eighteen zeros after it) other stars with solar systems in the universe. To me, it's a statistical inevitability that we are not the only intelligent life in the universe. Alien life is not something you "believe in", it's pretty much something that exists, but we have yet to discover.

I admire for an argument that uses mathematical figure to prove alien life or ETIs, but I can't see how one jumps from probability that life could arise to the fact there is life out there - just because it is statistical inevitable? I think formulas like the Drake Equation has less to do with statistic analysis and more to do with wishful thinking. The most of the variables in the equation can not be known. No one can take a equation with hypothetical variables and use them to conclude that that equation produces a scientific answer.

RVCA · 04-26-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I admire for an argument that uses mathematical figure to prove alien life or ETIs, but I can't see how one jumps from probability that life could arise to the fact there is life out there - just because it is statistical inevitable? I think formulas like the Drake Equation has less to do with statistic analysis and more to do with wishful thinking. The most of the variables in the equation can not be known. No one can take a equation with hypothetical variables and use them to conclude that that equation produces a scientific answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

I just refuse to accept that we're alone, and I suppose that makes me as bad as the religious because that's something I hold on faith.

Neapolitan · 04-27-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrinking funds pull plug on alien search devices

Shrinking funds pull plug on alien search devices

By MARCUS WOHLSEN, Associated Press Marcus Wohlsen, Associated Press – Tue Apr 26, 6:53 pm ET

SAN FRANCISCO – In the mountains of Northern California, a field of radio dishes that look like giant dinner plates waited for years for the first call from intelligent life among the stars.

But they're not listening anymore.

Cash-strapped governments, it seems, can no longer pay the interstellar phone bill.

Astronomers at the SETI Institute said a steep drop in state and federal funds has forced the shutdown of the Allen Telescope Array, a powerful tool in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, an effort scientists refer to as SETI.

"There's plenty of cosmic real estate that looks promising," Seth Shostak, senior astronomer at the institute, said Tuesday. "We've lost the instrument that's best for zeroing in on these better targets."

The shutdown came just as researchers were preparing to point the radio dishes at a batch of new planets.

About 50 or 60 of those planets appear to be about the right distance from stars to have temperatures that could make them habitable, Shostak said.

The 42 radio dishes had scanned deep space since 2007 for signals from alien civilizations while also conducting research into the structure and origin of the universe.

SETI Institute chief executive Tom Pierson said in an email to donors last week that the University of California, Berkeley, has run out of money for day-to-day operation of the dishes.

"Unfortunately, today's government budgetary environment is very difficult, and new solutions must be found," Pierson wrote.

The $50 million array was built by SETI and UC Berkeley with the help of a $30 million donation from Microsoft Corp. co-founder Paul Allen. Operating the dishes cost about $1.5 million a year, mostly to pay for the staff of eight to 10 researchers and technicians to operate the facility.

An additional $1 million a year was needed to collect and sift the data from the dishes.

The Paul G. Allen Family Foundation, the billionaire's philanthropic venture, had no immediate plans to provide more funding to the facility, said David Postman, a foundation spokesman.

The institute, however, was hopeful the U.S. Air Force might find the dishes useful as part of its mission to track space debris and provide funding to keep the equipment operating.

The SETI Institute was founded in 1984 and has received funding from NASA, the National Science Foundation and several other federal programs and private foundations. Other projects that will continue include the development of software and tools to be used in the search for extraterrestrial life.

Despite the shutdown of the Allen Telescope Array, the search for E.T. will go on using other telescopes such as a dish at Arecibo in Puerto Rico, the largest radio telescope in the world, Shostak said.

The difference, he said, was that SETI researchers can point the Arecibo telescope at selected sites in space for only about two weeks a year.

While the telescope in Northern California is not as powerful, it could be devoted to the search year-round.

"It has the advantage that you can point it where you want to point it and you can keep pointing it in that direction for as long as we want it to," Shostak said.

The dishes also are unique in the ability to probe for signals from extraterrestrial civilizations while gathering more general scientific data.

"That made the telescope a double-barreled threat," said Leo Blitz, a professor of astronomy at UC Berkeley and former director of the observatory that includes the Allen Telescope Array.

SETI Institute

Even though I don't believe in aliens, I am a little disappointed that a lack funding has stop scientific exploration and research.

Mr November · 04-27-2011, 11:56 PM

The fact that the universe is huge to me says there's a good chance that there is life - but the improbability that faces not just life but intelligent life, and not just intelligent life but intelligent life existing now...

It just makes me unwilling to say that it's statistically inevitable. Infact, even in the vastness of space, it is possible that we are the only example of intelligent life that has ever existed - I would say highly unlikely, but still possible.

I think I more or less agree with you RVCA, but I guess if this were a survey I would be checking the agree column rather than the strongly agree one :P

Freebase Dali · 04-28-2011, 02:00 AM

I don't know, and no one else does either.

Case fucking closed.

Mr November · 05-08-2011, 06:23 PM

There's lots of things we don't/can't know. That's the whole point of studying the probability. You aren't then going to base your beliefs or actions off of a definitive answer, but based on the results you come to, you might prepare yourself a certain way.

I mean NASA sends out a "interstellar record" on their voyager probes, so someone with some knowledge of the matter must believe theirs some chance of life in the universe worth entertaining. The record is intended to introduce earth to extra terrestrial intelligent life and explain ourselves. Very cool stuff.

Here's the beginning of that record.

Here is one of my favourite parts. It's called "sounds of earth".

Phantom Limb · 05-08-2011, 06:25 PM

Life arose in a very short time on earth after the period of heavy bombardment, which suggests that it is very easy for life to spring up.

P A N · 05-08-2011, 06:55 PM

i just read an article pertaining to the necessary building blocks needed for life to happen. i'm not a scientist or even remotely familiar with biological terminology, but apparently phosphorous plays this very important role in all the biological lifeforms we're currently aware of. this means that if there is any chance of there being life on another planet, there has to be phosphorous. what's just been discovered though, is that phosphorous can be replaced by arsenic in certain biological schemes, nearly doubling the chances of life on other planets.

to me though, no matter how you look at it, to presume there is so much space and we're the only ones capable of thinking about all that space is absurd thought at its finest. there is way too much evidence on top of that also.

Neapolitan · 05-08-2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zevokes

i just read an article pertaining to the necessary building blocks needed for life to happen. i'm not a scientist or even remotely familiar with biological terminology, but apparently phosphorous plays this very important role in all the biological lifeforms we're currently aware of. this means that if there is any chance of there being life on another planet, there has to be phosphorous. what's just been discovered though, is that phosphorous can be replaced by arsenic in certain biological schemes, nearly doubling the chances of life on other planets.

to me though, no matter how you look at it, to presume there is so much space and we're the only ones capable of thinking about all that space is absurd thought at its finest. there is way too much evidence on top of that also.

And what is this "too much evidence?" Is it tangible evidence or mere speculation put forth by paranormal enthusiast?

04-27-2011, 11:56 PM	#115 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	The fact that the universe is huge to me says there's a good chance that there is life - but the improbability that faces not just life but intelligent life, and not just intelligent life but intelligent life existing now... It just makes me unwilling to say that it's statistically inevitable. Infact, even in the vastness of space, it is possible that we are the only example of intelligent life that has ever existed - I would say highly unlikely, but still possible. I think I more or less agree with you RVCA, but I guess if this were a survey I would be checking the agree column rather than the strongly agree one :P

04-28-2011, 02:00 AM	#116 (permalink)
Freebase Dali Partying on the inside Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,584	I don't know, and no one else does either. Case fucking closed.

05-08-2011, 06:23 PM	#117 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	There's lots of things we don't/can't know. That's the whole point of studying the probability. You aren't then going to base your beliefs or actions off of a definitive answer, but based on the results you come to, you might prepare yourself a certain way. I mean NASA sends out a "interstellar record" on their voyager probes, so someone with some knowledge of the matter must believe theirs some chance of life in the universe worth entertaining. The record is intended to introduce earth to extra terrestrial intelligent life and explain ourselves. Very cool stuff. Here's the beginning of that record. Here is one of my favourite parts. It's called "sounds of earth".

05-08-2011, 06:55 PM	#119 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	i just read an article pertaining to the necessary building blocks needed for life to happen. i'm not a scientist or even remotely familiar with biological terminology, but apparently phosphorous plays this very important role in all the biological lifeforms we're currently aware of. this means that if there is any chance of there being life on another planet, there has to be phosphorous. what's just been discovered though, is that phosphorous can be replaced by arsenic in certain biological schemes, nearly doubling the chances of life on other planets. to me though, no matter how you look at it, to presume there is so much space and we're the only ones capable of thinking about all that space is absurd thought at its finest. there is way too much evidence on top of that also.